Himiko’s relation to Wei and the Three Kingdoms?

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Himiko’s relation to Wei and the Three Kingdoms?

Unread postby James » Fri Jan 05, 2007 3:17 am

You know… this is very interesting…

Omid wrote:
Pi Ka Chu wrote:
Omid wrote:I do wonder; did Japan have any kind of conflict with China during the 3 kingdoms period?


They had contacts. Look up Yayoi in wikipedia. It speaks of the Wa/Wo islander queen Himiko.

Interesting, I found this:
''A woman, known as Himiko in Japanese, ruled an early political federation known as Yamatai, which flourished during the 3rd century. While Himiko reigned as spiritual leader, her younger brother carried out affairs of state, which included diplomatic relations with the court of the Chinese Kingdom of Wei (220–265).

When asked of their origins by the Wei embassy, the people of Wa claimed to be descendants of King Taibo of Wu, a historic figure who founded the first Wu Kingdom (吳國) around the Yangtze Delta of China. (Original Chinese from the Records of Wei: 「倭人自謂太伯之後」.).''

This looks like it but then again, I wonder here whether the relation between Wei and Himiko changed once it turned into the Jin Kingdom.

Sorry for ambush-quoting you, Omid! I wanted to give this discussion some extra visibility (though I think many people do enjoy the Trieu Au thread). Has anyone heard more about Himiko’s relation to the Three Kingdoms, to what extent it was fact and to what extent it was fiction, and if that relation extended beyond the Wei government and period?
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Unread postby James » Fri Jan 05, 2007 3:22 am

Here’s an interesting read!
... gias.snu.ac.kr/wthong/publication/paekche/eng/hi5-3.pdf ...

Google search:
http://www.google.com/search?btnG=Googl ... %22+%2BWei

Sometimes also called Pimiko (Wade-Giles butchery?)
Himiko = 卑彌呼
"Queen Himiko of Yamatai in Wa …"

Interesting if not unusual painting…
http://www.geocities.com/therapeuter2002/himiko.html
Last edited by James on Fri Jan 05, 2007 3:30 am, edited 3 times in total.
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Unread postby Pi Ka Chu » Fri Jan 05, 2007 3:22 am

I know that Himiko is portrayed in Kessen 2, but thats fictional (extremely so). She was referrenced in the Sanguo Zhi, Samguk Sagi, and the Nihonshoki.
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Unread postby James » Fri Jan 05, 2007 3:23 am

Pi Ka Chu wrote:I know that Himiko is portrayed in Kessen 2, but thats fictional (extremely so). She was referrenced in the Sanguo Zhi, Samguk Sagi, and the Nihonshoki.

She appears in Destiny of an Emperor II after you fight the Orichi. :P
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Unread postby Pi Ka Chu » Fri Jan 05, 2007 3:26 am

Basically, the document you post tells us that the island is near Korea.
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Unread postby James » Fri Jan 05, 2007 3:30 am

Pi Ka Chu wrote:Basically, the document you post tells us that the island is near Korea.

Himiko was from Japan, though… yes?
I certainly thought she was.
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Unread postby Pi Ka Chu » Fri Jan 05, 2007 3:33 am

Type Himiko in Wikipedia, it had alot of information on her.
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Unread postby Mistelten » Fri Jan 05, 2007 3:41 am

Maybe if Wei would have won there would have been more foreign diplomacy or conquests. I think Wei was the most atypical of all the Three Kingdoms in that they formed relations with a country that wasn't in their immediate sphere of influence.

An interesting thing about Himiko is how Japan went from a matriarchal country in the 3rd century to being the exact opposite in time.
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Unread postby Omid » Fri Jan 05, 2007 4:03 am

James wrote:You know… this is very interesting…

Omid wrote:
Pi Ka Chu wrote:
Omid wrote:I do wonder; did Japan have any kind of conflict with China during the 3 kingdoms period?


They had contacts. Look up Yayoi in wikipedia. It speaks of the Wa/Wo islander queen Himiko.

Interesting, I found this:
''A woman, known as Himiko in Japanese, ruled an early political federation known as Yamatai, which flourished during the 3rd century. While Himiko reigned as spiritual leader, her younger brother carried out affairs of state, which included diplomatic relations with the court of the Chinese Kingdom of Wei (220–265).

When asked of their origins by the Wei embassy, the people of Wa claimed to be descendants of King Taibo of Wu, a historic figure who founded the first Wu Kingdom (吳國) around the Yangtze Delta of China. (Original Chinese from the Records of Wei: 「倭人自謂太伯之後」.).''

This looks like it but then again, I wonder here whether the relation between Wei and Himiko changed once it turned into the Jin Kingdom.

Sorry for ambush-quoting you, Omid! I wanted to give this discussion some extra visibility (though I think many people do enjoy the Trieu Au thread). Has anyone heard more about Himiko’s relation to the Three Kingdoms, to what extent it was fact and to what extent it was fiction, and if that relation extended beyond the Wei government and period?

It's an honor actually. :lol:
But Himiko was very interresting a female ruler of Yamataikoku region and she was known as Pimiku.
It's pretty interresting how they make a fictional character out of her while I know that she really existed in some records though there are exceptions. I put my refference to the Samguk Sagi whereas Historians have approved this information about the 3 kingdoms period is on a bias level towards to Chinese chronicles as read.

''Though Kim Busik was apparently ignorant of, or scoffed at quoting, Japanese histories, he lifts generously from the Chinese dynastic chronicles and even unofficial Chinese records, most prominently the Wei shu 魏書 (Book of Wei), Sanguo Zhi 三國志, Jin Shu 晉書, Jiu Tangshu 舊唐書 (Old history of Tang), Xin Tangshu 新唐書 (New history of Tang), and the Zizhi Tongjian 資治通鑑 (Comprehensive mirror for aid in government).

Some modern historians are critical of the records provided in the Samguk Sagi, citing a bias towards China and the Silla''
I don't really understand this Kim Busik guy for his biasness though.

Mistelten wrote:Maybe if Wei would have won there would have been more foreign diplomacy or conquests. I think Wei was the most atypical of all the Three Kingdoms in that they formed relations with a country that wasn't in their immediate sphere of influence.

An interesting thing about Himiko is how Japan went from a matriarchal country in the 3rd century to being the exact opposite in time.

Why do you think that? :)

And of course being female is pretty interesting in Japan and of course that China actually was open for diplomacy even though they didn't have unified the land. I wonder though; could Wei get support if they were about to be finished by Wu & Shu? I know it isn't possible but think of it, would they get aid from outside China?
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Unread postby Mistelten » Fri Jan 05, 2007 4:09 am

Mistelten wrote:Why do you think that? :)

And of course being female is pretty interesting in Japan and of course that China actually was open for diplomacy even though they didn't have unified the land. I wonder though; could Wei get support if they were about to be finished by Wu & Shu? I know it isn't possible but think of it, would they get aid from outside China?


I don't think there was much hope for manpower from Wa (Japan), but that Wei was much different from the preceding Han dynasty. I don't remember it, but there was something about Wei's laws being criticized as too strict according to a contemporary critic. I wish I knew exactly how they were too strict or what they said. Maybe they were just different from the way Han was.
The way that Wei fought decisive battles, had (apparently) unique laws, sought relations with foreign kingdoms other than exploitation, and actually deposed the Han makes me think that Wei itself was different from other dynasties. It may have actually been a good change, but we'll never know.
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