Did Sun Quan love his family?

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Did Sun Quan love his family?

Unread postby Shadowlink » Fri Dec 01, 2006 2:11 am

I mean he did ship his sister to liu bei
gave sun Ce daugther to lu xun
Sun Quan became emperor and didnt give sun ce any titles and only gave sun ce son a title of a marquis. I don't think he reallys cares about his kin
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Re: Did Sun Quan love his family?

Unread postby Baiko Arashi » Fri Dec 01, 2006 2:14 am

Shadowlink wrote:I mean he did ship his sister to liu bei
gave sun Ce daugther to lu xun
Sun Quan became emperor and didnt give sun ce any titles and only gave sun ce son a title of a marquis. I don't think he reallys cares about his kin


well...if lady sun and liu bei got married...shu/wu alliance..
lu xun was a highly valued officer
sun ce was dead so whats the point
eh, ill find something witty to put here later.

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Re: Did Sun Quan love his family?

Unread postby Exar Kun » Fri Dec 01, 2006 2:34 am

Shadowlink wrote:Sun Quan became emperor and didnt give sun ce any titles and only gave sun ce son a title of a marquis. I don't think he reallys cares about his kin


This last one is the only one I agree on.
It was very disrespectful that Sun Quan did not properly honour Sun Ce and his offspring. Without Ce, Quan would have been nothing.
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Unread postby MarvelousLingTong!!!!!! » Fri Dec 01, 2006 2:35 am

Now I could be wrong, but I thought Sun Quan gave Sun Ce the posthumous title of King of Changsha. It might not be that exactly, but somehting similar perhaps.
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Re: Did Sun Quan love his family?

Unread postby Shadowlink » Fri Dec 01, 2006 2:40 am

Baiko Arashi wrote:
Shadowlink wrote:I mean he did ship his sister to liu bei
gave sun Ce daugther to lu xun
Sun Quan became emperor and didnt give sun ce any titles and only gave sun ce son a title of a marquis. I don't think he reallys cares about his kin


well...if lady sun and liu bei got married...shu/wu alliance..
lu xun was a highly valued officer
sun ce was dead so whats the point
ahha sun quan give ssx to liu bei? that is like giving a hostage. I think Sun quan gave lu xun sun ce wife before yiling when lu xun was a civil officer and Sun hao killed sun ce last desecendant.
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Re: Did Sun Quan love his family?

Unread postby Sun Gongli » Fri Dec 01, 2006 2:54 am

Shadowlink wrote:I mean he did ship his sister to liu bei
gave sun Ce daugther to lu xun
Sun Quan became emperor and didnt give sun ce any titles and only gave sun ce son a title of a marquis. I don't think he reallys cares about his kin


It was common to marry off relatives to allies and potential enemies. Even more common to marry them off to loyal vassals like Lu Xun. So the marriages aren't really anything out of the ordinary. Cao Cao married Cao Ren's daughter to Sun Kuang, after all.

Sun Quan DID give Sun Ce a title after he became Emperor: Prince Huan (diligent) of Changsha. This is a bigger honor than Cao Pi paid Cao Ang. Granted, Cao Ang didn't establish Wei as a force to be reckoned with. But it's still notable.

I do feel that making Sun Ce's son only a marquis was a bit ungrateful of Sun Quan. He should have honored Sun Shao with the title of Prince. And maybe he should even have restored Sun Ce's line of succession by making Sun Shao his heir if Sun Deng was dead, because frankly, the only other son who deserved to be emperor was Sun Xiu.
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Unread postby Jedi » Fri Dec 01, 2006 1:27 pm

Sun Quan hated his Family , he was greedy and he was glad when Sun Ce died cause that was his chance.
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Unread postby James » Fri Dec 01, 2006 4:09 pm

Jedi wrote:Sun Quan hated his Family , he was greedy and he was glad when Sun Ce died cause that was his chance.

This is what we call an opinion.
The truth behind Sun Ce was outlined above.
What other foundation do you have for your view?

I suspect that Sun Quan, at the age his brother died, was probably a little more overwhelmed than anything. I doubt the first thought in his mind was, “Hoo-ray! They are gone! I am the ruler now!”
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Unread postby Sun Gongli » Fri Dec 01, 2006 4:52 pm

Yeah, I don't think Sun Quan hated or was jealous of Sun Ce. I just think that, in his later years, he grew overconfident and began to believe that the empire was his work, and that Sun Ce had just laid a basic foundation. He was wrong, of course, but he did respect his brother.
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Re: Did Sun Quan love his family?

Unread postby Exar Kun » Fri Dec 01, 2006 9:51 pm

Sun Gongli wrote:Sun Quan DID give Sun Ce a title after he became Emperor: Prince Huan (diligent) of Changsha. This is a bigger honor than Cao Pi paid Cao Ang. Granted, Cao Ang didn't establish Wei as a force to be reckoned with. But it's still notable.


No, I'm afraid it really isn't notable.
Cao Pi and Cao Ang isn't even remotely the same as Sun Quan and Sun Ce. Nice damage control but it doesn't make any sense.
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