Shall we discuss Liu Feng?

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Re: Shall we discuss Liu Feng?

Unread postby Striga » Wed Nov 30, 2011 11:15 pm

I wonder why Guan Yu would have chosen the obviously inept Liu Shan over the able Liu Feng. It just causes dissension. Was Liu Feng older than Liu Shan by any chance?
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Re: Shall we discuss Liu Feng?

Unread postby Shen Ai » Thu Dec 01, 2011 12:15 am

Liu Feng was older and adopted I believe. Zhuge Liang didn't really like Feng much either, and I guess Liu Bei thought he was a bit wild, evidenced form his distrust of him after his speedy defeat at the hands of traitors and Cao Pi.

Liu Shan was okay. He was okay at administrative tasks but Huang Hao and Jiang Wei really took most of the power from him. Zhuge Liang also did a lot of governing for him, so he's no where near the likes of Sun Quan or Cao Cao and his father. He was an able match for Cao Rui, slightly worse than Cao Pi and better than Sun Xiu and Sun Hao. Sun Liang was...
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Re: Shall we discuss Liu Feng?

Unread postby Striga » Thu Dec 01, 2011 3:04 am

Liu Feng was adopted, that was why he was disfavoured. Liu Shan was too gullible, and all the advisors used him to they immediate benefit.
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Re: Shall we discuss Liu Feng?

Unread postby Aventador951 » Fri Mar 02, 2012 10:09 am

From what I remember, Liu Feng was adopted and he wasn't ordered to commit suicide, but lost the favour of Liu Bei because he had refused Guan Yu when he had been defeated by Lu Meng some place to stay, so his companion, Meng Da, defected to Wei, but Liu Feng stayed.

Liu Bei was angry with Liu Feng and Meng Da and, under Zhuge Liang's advice, went off to fight Meng Da. He was sorely defeated, and Liu Bei had him executed.

All this comes from my memory of my ROTK book.
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Re: Shall we discuss Liu Feng?

Unread postby Dong Zhou » Fri Mar 02, 2012 11:51 am

and he wasn't ordered to commit suicide,


Those claiming suicide were probably basing it on historical sources. As were those who argue it had less to do with Guan Yu's death and more to do with the heir situation
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Re: Shall we discuss Liu Feng?

Unread postby Shen Ai » Fri Mar 02, 2012 4:37 pm

Could Liu Feng be faulted for not sending troops. He was a fair distance away and the battle was nearly lost anyway. He just wanted to strengthen what little land Shu had left.
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Re: Shall we discuss Liu Feng?

Unread postby Dong Zhou » Sat Mar 03, 2012 11:24 am

I think in the novel, it heavily implies that Liu Feng could have done something and his motives were due to the words of Meng Da. Historically, Guan Yu was winning at the time and Liu Feng's reasons may well have been valid. It was his later stupidity and his existence being a threat to Shan that I think forced his death.
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Re:

Unread postby Sun Fin » Sun Jul 23, 2017 9:19 am

Dong Zhou wrote:
If Liu Feng is of Imperial blood then maybe his claim would be stronger then normal, risking people revolting in Feng's name but I think Zhuge Liang's fear is that Liu Feng would be a pain to keep under control and may feel he is entitled to things he isn't(command of the army or being one of the "Regents") and undermine Kongming's or Liu Shan's authority.


Sorry all, trawling through all threads and this comment stood out to me. Do we have any historical basis to think of Zhuge Liang as jealous? If he genuinely considered that Liu Feng could be a rival regent does that make his removal of Li Yan more sinister?
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Re: Shall we discuss Liu Feng?

Unread postby Dong Zhou » Mon Jul 24, 2017 6:56 am

I do see Zhuge Liang as someone who shirks internal confrontation somewhat, not sure about jealous. Possibly his comments about Fa Zheng being untouchable could be read as such. With Liu Feng, hard to to really tell about the personality elements Zhuge Liang warned but an elder claimant to the throne with miliatry expirence, connections and proven abysmal political judgement is an issue. With Li Yan, either Zhuge Liang shirked dealing with Li Yan's corruption until Li Yan brought himself down or is really taking advantage of the moment to pile as much damage on Li Yan as he can get away with to get rid of a rival
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Re: Re:

Unread postby PeanutButterToast » Tue Jul 25, 2017 2:54 am

Sun Fin wrote:
Dong Zhou wrote:
If Liu Feng is of Imperial blood then maybe his claim would be stronger then normal, risking people revolting in Feng's name but I think Zhuge Liang's fear is that Liu Feng would be a pain to keep under control and may feel he is entitled to things he isn't(command of the army or being one of the "Regents") and undermine Kongming's or Liu Shan's authority.


Sorry all, trawling through all threads and this comment stood out to me. Do we have any historical basis to think of Zhuge Liang as jealous? If he genuinely considered that Liu Feng could be a rival regent does that make his removal of Li Yan more sinister?


It certainly seemed to be that he knew how to do away with people he didn't like.
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