Did Dong Zhuo’s actions result in good, or bad?

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Did Dong Zhuo’s actions result in good, or bad?

Unread postby lord darwin of sibarani » Fri Aug 04, 2006 6:35 am

we know that dong zhuo assinate first emperor and enthrone the prince. His reason is the first emperor is weak but later we know emperor bian as weak as first emperor .Cao-cao is overmatch to him. Are dong zhuo do this for good or not ?
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Unread postby Jordan » Fri Aug 04, 2006 6:36 am

Yesno. Dong Zhuo was just as good/bad as all the other warlords out there. Like Cao Cao he used the Emperor as a puppet, but he did so because the Emperor sucked in the first place. :/
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Unread postby Pilaf » Fri Aug 04, 2006 7:47 pm

He was a tyrant who committed many atrocities, including rape, multiple times. I'd say that if any of the various warlords in ROTK should be painted as a "villain", he fits the bill.
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Unread postby JamesD » Fri Aug 04, 2006 8:34 pm

Actuallt during the Han he was a great general. He fought the Yellow Turbans, the Liang Rebellion, and destroying the Eunuchs. He then turned bad killing the emperor and all those events.
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Unread postby Xu Yuan » Fri Aug 04, 2006 10:32 pm

He was a chivalrous man until he attained power, then he became power hungry... his position is an example of the age old saying "When a weak man takes power, the power controls him and brings pain to his people." Or something like that?
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Unread postby Jordan » Sat Aug 05, 2006 1:13 am

Pilaf wrote:He was a tyrant who committed many atrocities, including rape, multiple times. I'd say that if any of the various warlords in ROTK should be painted as a "villain", he fits the bill.


1.) Where did you get the rape thing?

2.) How was he so corrupt?

3.) Why was it bad to kill the Emperor? The Emperor sucked. Horribly. Why does everybody like the high-up, pompous aristocratic ruler character in an age where the people were starving and there was a vast amount of war? And DZ protected the new Emperor he appointed well. The pack of dogs who opposed Dong Zhuo wouldn't have treated Xian any better. When Cao Cao did gain control of Xian, he used him like a puppet just like Dong Zhuo did. :/

In my opinion Dong Zhuo wanted peace and would have restored the Han so long as he could keep an influential position. He even tried to expand the Empire for instance by giving Gongsun Du the authority to invade Korea. :P
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Unread postby MarvelousLingTong!!!!!! » Sat Aug 05, 2006 2:12 am

I just wanted to say those were some nice points you brought up Slick Slicer good job.
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Unread postby Xu Yuan » Sat Aug 05, 2006 4:04 am

Though if everything is as you said SlickSlicer, if he was so "loyal" to the dynasty, why did he go to take the Emperor's power at the supposed abdication of the Emperor?

How was he corrupt? He robbed tombs of the man's ancestor's he was still claiming to protect, he drove Luo Yang into the ground, leaving a charred mess, many, many people died on the way to Chang An, which was 210 miles away from Luo Yang. He ate people... He slept with the Emperor's concubines and killed a boy who had done nothing wrong.

He also did something with gold (someone can hopefully expand on this) that led to inflation until the rise of the Three Kingdoms
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Unread postby Jordan » Sat Aug 05, 2006 5:41 am

Though if everything is as you said SlickSlicer, if he was so "loyal" to the dynasty, why did he go to take the Emperor's power at the supposed abdication of the Emperor?

How was he corrupt? He robbed tombs of the man's ancestor's he was still claiming to protect, he drove Luo Yang into the ground, leaving a charred mess, many, many people died on the way to Chang An, which was 210 miles away from Luo Yang. He ate people... He slept with the Emperor's concubines and killed a boy who had done nothing wrong.

He also did something with gold (someone can hopefully expand on this) that led to inflation until the rise of the Three Kingdoms


Thanks MLT. :P

In response to Xu Yuan-

1.) He was loyal to the Han in forcing the abdication of Emperor Shao because Emperor Shao was weak and stupid. He made a horrible ruler and Dong Zhuo knew that. So instead Dong Zhuo replaced him with a smarter kid who, when he was fully grown, could act as a more capable Emperor in his adulthood (while Dong Zhuo acted like what Westerners would describe as a 'regent' in the time that Emperor Xian was still growing up). Unfortunately Emperor Xian never got to occupy a position really as ruler because Cao Cao took over and Dong Zhuo was defeated. Dong Zhuo had acted as Prime Minister after deposing Shao because Xian was a little boy. You didn't really expect Xian to rule at such a young age did you? :? Also, even if Dong Zhuo was using Emperor Xian as a puppet and planned to do so for Emperor Xian's entire life, you have to remember that Cao Cao did the same thing, and Yuan Shao would have done the same thing if he took control of the Emperor and so would any warlord from this time period in all likelihood. Dong Zhuo may have or may not have intended to use the Emperor as a puppet forever. You don't know, but if he did intend to do so, he was no worse than...Cao Cao for instance.

2.) Why shouldn't you rob tombs for valuables? What the hell is the point of burying valuable stuff in tombs in the first place anyways? It was useless in the tombs, so Dong Zhuo took it out to use for a purpose. Better the underground valuables be utilized than rot away in a tomb or lay underground for hundreds of years serving no purpose.

3.) He drove Luoyang to the ground after he was assaulted from all sides by warmongering hordes. He burned it because he didn't want his enemies to benefit from goods in the city and pillage it and all that. That would just further their war inclinations. Yuan Shu, who's general Sun Jian had been the one to take Luo Yang, would have certainly used whatever he could get in the city to his advantage and probably would have used Luoyang itself as a base to finish off his campaign against Dong Zhuo. Dong Zhuo burned the city so that his adversaries could not use it to their advantage.

4.) Dong Zhuo ate people? Where did you find that information??? O_O

5.) What's wrong with sleeping with women who shouldn't belong to a young, too youthful and undeserving kid to begin with? I see no reason why he shouldn't have slept with the Emperor's concubines. After giving service to the Han as a fine and for the most part successful general, Dong Zhuo well deserved such pleasures. Emperor Shao meanwhile did jack-squat to help the Han. He plain sucked. He had done 'nothing wrong,' but he had also 'done nothing.' He didn't do anything to re-organize the Emperor, help the people, etc. He was just an incompetent, worthless Emperor who deserved his fate.

6.) What did he do with gold? :?
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Unread postby Jer » Sat Aug 05, 2006 7:10 am

I do agree that is vain for valuables to be buried with the deceased; however, I believe it is just as vain to loot them. You may temporarily have extra wealth but your reputation will certainly be tarnished. Plus its a plethora of disrespect!
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