Zuo Ci and Yu Ji

Join the Romance of the Three Kingdoms discussion with our resident Scholars. Topics relating to the novel and history are both welcome. Don't forget to check the Forum Rules before posting.
Kongming’s Archives: Romance of the Three Kingdoms
Three Kingdoms Officer Biographies
Three Kingdoms Officer Encyclopedia
Scholars of Shen Zhou Search Tool

Zuo Ci and Yu Ji

Unread postby WarriorWorthAThousand » Sat Jun 24, 2006 2:34 am

Forgive me if this has been done before.

In RoTK, there is a wizard named Zuo Ci. He was said to be able to summon cranes from nowhere, find things that could not be found where he was told to seek, and went for a week without food or drink.

Now, Luo Guanzhong made up a few people in his book (Zhou Cang, I believe, is one example), but most of them were minor characters who did minor jobs. Zuo Ci was obviously made up, but he wasn't minor in my opinion. He angered Cao Cao to the point where he was put to death (though on second thought, Cao Cao threw around executions a lot). He was thought, in the book, to be a cause of Cao Cao's death, having foretold it.

Another magician was named, if I remember correctly, Yi Ji. He was around Wu in the time of Sun Ce. He was the only person Sun Ce put to death I believe. I don't recall exactly what he did to Sun Ce, but he did threaten Sun, I think. He then was put to death, but his ghost kept appearing around Sun, until Sun Ce finally got so angry that his wound burst open and he died.

RoTK is in no way nonfiction (Guan Yu's ghost possessed Lu Meng, for another thing), but why would Guanzhong make up even one magician, let alone two, with that kind of power, unless there was someone real who did something like this? Any thoughts?
User avatar
WarriorWorthAThousand
Initiate
 
Posts: 60
Joined: Thu Jun 22, 2006 10:18 pm
Location: New Jersey

Unread postby Sun Gongli » Sat Jun 24, 2006 4:26 am

My thoughts, so I can't guarantee accuracy, but:

Zuo Ci - I believe he was a historical character. Of course, I don't believe in mysticism, but apparently, he was widely believed to be one.

Yu Ji - Yu Ji himself was a historical figure; however, he could NOT have been killed by Sun Ce. The reason for this is that, just for him to have lived to see Sun Ce conquer Wu, he would had to have been over two hundred years old. I don't believe the story about Sun Ce and Yu Ji one bit. However, there is a reference to a charlatan claiming to be Yu Ji who may or may not have been killed by Sun Ce, and people being so fooled by the false Yu Ji that they actually believed him, thus causing the fictional encounter to be made into "fact."
"There are those who try to shape the world to their own whim,
and then there are those who allow the world to shape them.
It is in the balance that greatness is achieved."
User avatar
Sun Gongli
Poo Poo Pants
 
Posts: 4058
Joined: Thu Nov 04, 2004 2:56 am
Location: Spies destroy everything I create!

Unread postby Dong Zhou » Sat Jun 24, 2006 11:35 am

I think someone mentioned Zuo Ci was mentioned in another dynasty but only very short mention
“You, are a rebellious son who abandoned his father. You are a cruel brigand who murdered his lord. How can Heaven and Earth put up with you for long? And unless you die soon, how can you face the sight of men?”
User avatar
Dong Zhou
A-Dou
A-Dou
 
Posts: 15063
Joined: Sun Apr 10, 2005 12:32 pm
Location: "Now we must die. May Your Majesty maintain yourself"

Unread postby JamesD » Sat Jun 24, 2006 7:57 pm

Yi Ji was said to be the author of the book Zhang Jiao uses during his rebelloin.
JamesD
Langzhong
 
Posts: 538
Joined: Mon Jun 12, 2006 7:43 pm
Location: Fairfield, CT

Unread postby Lexus Fiend » Sun Jun 25, 2006 2:56 am

JamesD wrote:Yi Ji was said to be the author of the book Zhang Jiao uses during his rebelloin.


The Way of Peace? :?
-Devin aka LuckyD
*Neighborhood Superstar*
"Street smarts on the level of a Harvard degree."
User avatar
Lexus Fiend
Scholar of Shen Zhou
 
Posts: 3218
Joined: Sat Jul 16, 2005 12:12 am
Location: LoUiSiAna

Unread postby James » Sun Jun 25, 2006 9:49 pm

Lexus Fiend wrote:
JamesD wrote:Yi Ji was said to be the author of the book Zhang Jiao uses during his rebelloin.

The Way of Peace? :?

Zhang Jue received the ‘Way of Peace’ [太平要術] from Chang Tzu (aka. Zhuang Zi, Nan Hua [incorrect], “The Nanhua Immortal”), the famous Taoist sage from the Warring States period of Chinese history. (This all according to the novel.)
Kongming’s Archives – Romance of the Three Kingdoms Novel, History and Games
“ They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety.”
  — Ben Franklin
User avatar
James
Sausaged Fish
Sausaged Fish
 
Posts: 17949
Joined: Fri Jun 14, 2002 3:21 pm
Location: Happy Valley, UT

Unread postby Sun Gongli » Sun Jun 25, 2006 11:37 pm

Please, please, it's Yu Ji, not Yi Ji. Yi Ji was an officer of Liu Biao.
"There are those who try to shape the world to their own whim,
and then there are those who allow the world to shape them.
It is in the balance that greatness is achieved."
User avatar
Sun Gongli
Poo Poo Pants
 
Posts: 4058
Joined: Thu Nov 04, 2004 2:56 am
Location: Spies destroy everything I create!

Unread postby WarriorWorthAThousand » Sun Jun 25, 2006 11:39 pm

I realize it was Yu Ji, I realized the mistake when I saw your first post, so sorry.
User avatar
WarriorWorthAThousand
Initiate
 
Posts: 60
Joined: Thu Jun 22, 2006 10:18 pm
Location: New Jersey

Unread postby Sun Gongli » Mon Jun 26, 2006 2:48 pm

WarriorWorthAThousand wrote:I realize it was Yu Ji, I realized the mistake when I saw your first post, so sorry.


Not you. There's other people who still called him Yi Ji.
"There are those who try to shape the world to their own whim,
and then there are those who allow the world to shape them.
It is in the balance that greatness is achieved."
User avatar
Sun Gongli
Poo Poo Pants
 
Posts: 4058
Joined: Thu Nov 04, 2004 2:56 am
Location: Spies destroy everything I create!

Unread postby JamesD » Mon Jun 26, 2006 4:01 pm

Sun Gongli wrote:
WarriorWorthAThousand wrote:I realize it was Yu Ji, I realized the mistake when I saw your first post, so sorry.


Not you. There's other people who still called him Yi Ji.


My fault I saw the title with Yi Ji and just wrote it without thinking.
JamesD
Langzhong
 
Posts: 538
Joined: Mon Jun 12, 2006 7:43 pm
Location: Fairfield, CT

Next

Return to Sanguo Yanyi Symposium

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Bing [Bot] and 8 guests

Copyright © 2002–2008 Kongming’s Archives. All Rights Reserved