Brave Stand of Dian Wei

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Unread postby RyoHazuki » Sun Feb 01, 2004 4:42 pm

Did Dian Wei use two adult bodies as weapons? :lol: Could you imagine those two bodies? "Awww I am getting so dizzy >.< wait ahhh!" ....yeah

Anyway people like Dian Wei come so few in number,he showed no fear even in such a huge confusion he stepped up and gave his life without a second thought.I think if Dian Wei wasnt around then,Cao Cao wouldnt have gotten away atleast not without a severe injury (He got away with just a Arrow wound too his arm,had Dian Wei not held those enemy troops back more would have gotten through the gate and cause alot more problems for Cao Cao)

It was Dian Wei who held the main gate so Cao Cao would get away on his horse.However after Dian Wei fell Cao Cao's horse was hit by Arrows repeatdly but the horse keeped on going but when the horse was hit in the eye it fell this is where Cao Ang came to his fathers aid and gave his horse (and his only means of escaped) too Cao Cao.

As I was saying Cao Cao already had a horse but was still in danger,had Dian Wei not stayed behind the costs would have been much worse but even still if Cao Ang didnt come along then Dian Wei's stand would have been for nothing.A warriors abilty is matched only by his courage in battle.

You wouldnt even need an Image of Dian Wei too reliaze just how fearsome he really was,I think his feats. in battle speaks for itself.
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Unread postby Sima Hui » Sun Feb 01, 2004 5:36 pm

Zhuge Marc wrote:Didn't I already make a thread about this?

Anyway, I think that Cao Cao still would have escaped even if Dian Wei was not with him. I can't remember who (I think it was a Cao), but someone gave Cao Cao their horse and gave their life for him also.


I disagree. Although I think Cao might have escaped without Dian Wei, it would have been more likely that he would have been caught up with. Dian Wei made it almost certain that Cao would escape.
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Unread postby Separation Anxiety » Sun Feb 01, 2004 8:45 pm

I think without Dian Wei and Cao Ang, who most people completely forget also helped his father and died, Cao would have almost certainly died. Also wasn't Cao Ang his fathers favorite and eldest son. If so then Cao Cao must have liked Dian Wei much more to openly weep about Dian, and not for Cao Ang.
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Unread postby RyoHazuki » Sun Feb 01, 2004 9:34 pm

Dian_Wei wrote:I think without Dian Wei and Cao Ang, who most people completely forget also helped his father and died, Cao would have almost certainly died. Also wasn't Cao Ang his fathers favorite and eldest son. If so then Cao Cao must have liked Dian Wei much more to openly weep about Dian, and not for Cao Ang.


Thats the impression I got from reading the novel.Allthough I dont know about the actual history of this Cao Cao apparently said something along the lines of how he mourned more for Dian Wei than his own son Cao Ang.

The reason I think people forget Cao Ang's sacrifice is because he was infact Cao Cao's son.An act like that would be expected more from a son,however Dian Wei was no relative of Cao Cao's but still sacrificed himself like he was.Dont get me Wrong I feel Cao Ang's noble act is just as great as Dian Wei's but let's just admit it,Dian Wei went out with style too the point where people were afraid too go near him Cao Ang was just "Shreaded too pieces".
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Unread postby Devilrai » Thu Feb 05, 2004 9:31 am

RyoHazuki wrote:
Dian_Wei wrote:I think without Dian Wei and Cao Ang, who most people completely forget also helped his father and died, Cao would have almost certainly died. Also wasn't Cao Ang his fathers favorite and eldest son. If so then Cao Cao must have liked Dian Wei much more to openly weep about Dian, and not for Cao Ang.


Thats the impression I got from reading the novel.Allthough I dont know about the actual history of this Cao Cao apparently said something along the lines of how he mourned more for Dian Wei than his own son Cao Ang.

The reason I think people forget Cao Ang's sacrifice is because he was infact Cao Cao's son.An act like that would be expected more from a son,however Dian Wei was no relative of Cao Cao's but still sacrificed himself like he was.Dont get me Wrong I feel Cao Ang's noble act is just as great as Dian Wei's but let's just admit it,Dian Wei went out with style too the point where people were afraid too go near him Cao Ang was just "Shreaded too pieces".


This really reminds me of Liu Bei after he escaped the Changban Slopes, when Zhao Yun presented Liu Bei his child and Liu Bei just slamed the child to the ground and began weeping for Zhao Yun and how could he have lost a great general.

So Cao Cao must have been thinking the same thing, he could have more children (and he did) but the fact that he lost a unique general is very hard to replace.
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Unread postby Separation Anxiety » Thu Feb 05, 2004 10:30 pm

Cao Cao may have had many more children but Cao Ang was Cao Cao's favorite son and his eldest son. Just imagine how much better Wei would have been with Cao Ang as a leader rather than Cao Pi. Cao Ang was very skilled with weapons and warfare and knew a lot about governing, he would have been a great emperor.
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Unread postby n06guy » Thu Feb 05, 2004 10:42 pm

Cao Cao may have had many more children but Cao Ang was Cao Cao's favorite son and his eldest son. Just imagine how much better Wei would have been with Cao Ang as a leader rather than Cao Pi. Cao Ang was very skilled with weapons and warfare and knew a lot about governing, he would have been a great emperor.


Actually going by jiuwan's rough translation at 3k he wrote:


The King of Feng Min [Cao] Ang{1} was styled Zi Xiu. Fragile and recommended for honesty and filial piety.


Now by what you say, he was good at being a leader, a skilled man with weapons and in warfare, and had good knowledge of governing. I see two different views.
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Unread postby Lady Wu » Thu Feb 05, 2004 11:25 pm

n06guy wrote:Actually going by jiuwan's rough translation at 3k he wrote:
The King of Feng Min [Cao] Ang{1} was styled Zi Xiu. Fragile and recommended for honesty and filial piety.


Now by what you say, he was good at being a leader, a skilled man with weapons and in warfare, and had good knowledge of governing. I see two different views.

The passage should read: "Prince of Fengmin, Ang, was styled Zixiu. As a young man he was recommended as filial and incorrupt.". The term "ruoguan", meaning "newly-capped" (i.e. someone in their late teens or early twenties. The capping ceremony was a coming-of-age ceremony done when a man reaches 20), was incorrectly translated as "fragile".

It still isn't clear that he had good leadership abilities though, for all that SGZ said of him was that "he followed Cao Cao in his southern expedition and was killed by Zhang Xiu."
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Unread postby n06guy » Fri Feb 06, 2004 12:22 am

:oops: My bad... Sorry. Still why does Dian_Wei say Cao Ang is that good at governing, fighting, etc. If thats all SGZ says? Are there any other resources to back this up?
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Unread postby Separation Anxiety » Fri Feb 06, 2004 1:58 am

In SGYY it talks about how Cao Ang is Cao Cao's most favored son for his skill. Cao Cao remarks fairly early in the book, like somewhere around the part where Lu Bu is governing for himself, that Cao Ang is a great warrior, very intelligent, etc. This is where I am getting the info. Also, I'm not sure about this, but didn't he save Cao Cao's life in a battle against either Yuan Shao, Yuan Shu or Lu Bu. I'm not sure of this but I will ask anyway.
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