What's this Lu Bu worship that I see all over the place?

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Unread postby Guan Yan » Tue Mar 25, 2008 9:10 am

i find it quite ridiculous that he is stated as the greatest warrior from what i have studied guan would be better and even in the novel zhang fei tied alone with lubu so even in the game he should not be the best.
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Unread postby Sun Gongli » Tue Mar 25, 2008 3:31 pm

Guan Yu didn't defeat Lu Bu. Lu Bu matched Guan Yu, Zhang Fei, and Liu Bei all at once. Plus, he killed a lot of officers in duels and nearly killed Gongsun Zan.
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Unread postby Mikhail » Tue Mar 25, 2008 6:17 pm

Exactly. Lu Bu had duelled like 4 guys and Gongsun Zan before Zhang Fei decided to charge. He held Zhang Fei to 100 bouts I think then Guan Yu came in. He held both of them for another 50 till Liu Bei came. After another 30, he finally had enough. He was able to hold on for that long against some of the greatest of the period, in one time.

That to me is better than Guan Yu's gates or the Yan Liang charge.

That's why that moment in Hu Lao was supposed to cement Lu Bu's place as the best warrior in the land.

And I'd have no doubt that Lu Bu could pull off any of the warrior feats that both Guan Yu and Zhang Fei did. Maybe even better...
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Unread postby Guan Yan » Tue Mar 25, 2008 10:12 pm

historically he dueled one person, and later on zhang fei tied with him 100 bouts alone in the novel and i did not say guan dueled him i said he was a better warrior from what i studied.
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Re:

Unread postby Diversebeats » Fri Feb 27, 2009 10:21 am

James wrote:Hmm… you know, taking a serious look at it, I think the novel has more to do with this than people are giving credit. It was, in fact, the novel that led both Capcom and Koei to turn Lü Bu into the super warrior that they portray. If we look back into history (we’re talking Asian, here), Lü Bu is also a character that people frequently keep in mind—just not to the extent that they recognized Cao Cao and Liu Bei, for example.

If one reads the entries in the novel relative to Lü Bu they will find that he is presented as a god of combat. He slaughters just about everyone he faces, and it even took Liu Bei, Guan Yu, and Zhang Fei—main characters of the novel—just to make him retreat (they couldn’t kill him). Lü Bu is a major character in the pre-Three Kingdoms portion of the novel, and he plays a major role in the struggles of major characters such as Cao Cao.

I suggest that, even the novel taken out of the picture, Lü Bu would hold a very heavy weight in terms of recognition. He would probably be classed with Guan Yu or Zhang Fei in terms of combat ability (not commander ability).

Why so much excitement? If we didn’t have games in the picture, only the sort of people who read 3,000 page novels would form a view, and I suggest they would be more interested in characters such as Cao Cao, Sima Yi, Zhou Yu, etc. Games change this. We have younger people paying attention now—the same sort that love Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles, Batman, and GI Joe. What’s not to love in the badass known as Lü Bu? I know I would have loved him more when I was younger!
you're joking right? There is no evidence at all that suggests that Guan Yu was a better General than Lu Bu. Lu Bu actually won battles...while Guan Yu couldn't defend anything he was entrusted with to save his life.

Lu Bu is actually under rated IMO, his might, might be over rated, but his intelligence, and leadership are sharply under rated.
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Re: Re:

Unread postby tofu » Sat Feb 28, 2009 11:35 am

Diversebeats wrote:you're joking right? There is no evidence at all that suggests that Guan Yu was a better General than Lu Bu. Lu Bu actually won battles...while Guan Yu couldn't defend anything he was entrusted with to save his life.


Well you're joking right? Yes, Lu Bu had a great fighting skills, but that was probably the only thing good about him-he was a disloyal backstabbing traitor. Guan Yu on the other hand, was extremely loyal-you can't just judge him on one thing he did wrong-and Guan Yu, unlike Lu Bu, had friends, and a functioning brain, also unlike Lu Bu.
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Re: Re:

Unread postby Diversebeats » Sat Feb 28, 2009 12:44 pm

tofu wrote:
Diversebeats wrote:you're joking right? There is no evidence at all that suggests that Guan Yu was a better General than Lu Bu. Lu Bu actually won battles...while Guan Yu couldn't defend anything he was entrusted with to save his life.


Well you're joking right? Yes, Lu Bu had a great fighting skills, but that was probably the only thing good about him-he was a disloyal backstabbing traitor. Guan Yu on the other hand, was extremely loyal-you can't just judge him on one thing he did wrong-and Guan Yu, unlike Lu Bu, had friends, and a functioning brain, also unlike Lu Bu.


1. Lu Bu actually had AT LEAST an average military brain compared to these other officers who were considered adequate in that field. Beyond popular belief, he was far from a "dummy".

2. How did Lu Bu not have friends. He had very talented officers that were willing to die for him, and he got betrayed just like Guan Yu did.

3. Lu Bu was a traitor, I will admit that. He was easily influenced, and that hurt him. His revolt against Dong Zhuo shouldn't be a slight on him since he did what warlords all across the land couldn't do. Kill the most tyrannical leader in the 3 kingdoms era(I know it is right before).

Gullible, does not equal unintelligent, and lack of loyalty, does not equal lack of intelligence either
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Re: What's this Lu Bu worship that I see all over the place?

Unread postby Jordan » Sat Feb 28, 2009 1:05 pm

In the novel he took on countless combatants.

Historically he only dueled with Guo Si as far as records attest (or at least as far as I know from what I've read). He did win, for the record, but Guo Si was rescued before he could be killed. Not a huge accomplishment, but it's a feather in Lu Bu's cap. As far as duels go, there weren't really very many that are known about in records during the 3 Kingdoms period. Also, he did kill Dong Zhou. I think he was a decent archer and stuff.

Lu Bu was a decent general historically. He fought well at Changshan and on other occasions. Gao Shun, his subordinate, was also very competent.

Most people like the beginning of the novel best. The part where Lu Bu duels with Liu Bei, Guan Yu and Zhang Fei is a particularly memorable part. It is probably the biggest influence for how he is portrayed in the game. It is probably a big reason in general for why people revere Lu Bu.

Overall, in the novel I think that Guan Yu beats Lu Bu in feats. However, that's largely because Guan Yu is around for far, FAR more chapters.
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Re: What's this Lu Bu worship that I see all over the place?

Unread postby Starscream » Sat Feb 28, 2009 1:31 pm

For me, it was Koei's fault. When I first came across RTK 1, Lu Bu's war was 100. Same in subsequent RTK series, no compromise at all. Nobody was ever that consistent. Moreover, Lu Bu's duelling victory was programmed to be more consistent than Guan Yu, Zhang Fei, Zhao Yun, Ma Chao, etc during RTK 3 onwards. :devil:

Of course, novel has a part to play behind Koei's game design. According to the novel, Lu Bu still maintained an edge when he fought both Guan Yu and Zhang Fei. It was not until Liu Bei joined in the battle that he fled. If Lu Bu (war 100 + 8 for halberd) is greater than Guan Yu (war 98 +7) + Zhang Fei (war 99 +6), then Lu Bu is WOW. If Lu Bu (war 100 + 8 for halberd) = Liu Bei (war 67?) + Guan Yu (98 + 7)+ Zhang Fei (99 + 6), then Lu Bu must be god. :devil: That's the result when you add novel's logic into Koei's game stats, thus explaining why he gets worshipped by fans 2000 years later. :devil:
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Re: What's this Lu Bu worship that I see all over the place?

Unread postby Shah Muhammad III » Sat Feb 28, 2009 5:39 pm

but a betrayal is still a betrayal, even if it is Dong Zhou, but he also adopted Lu Bu and before that he even killed his other adopted father Ding Yuan, oddly enough he still had people who would die for him Gao Shun and Cheng Gong to name a few, but he got betrayed becuase he ironically wrong Hou Cheng even if it he didn't know about not drinking after curfew, Oh and Starscream i was able to get Lu Bu to retreat with 2 maxed war Created officers and Yuan Shu
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