Historical Liu Bei?

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Historical Liu Bei?

Unread postby GanNing » Sun Mar 26, 2006 3:50 pm

I didn't see it in the list of common threads, but does Liu Bei have a SGZ bio. I've searched around online and have been unsucessful at finding one.

I've read about people who talk about the historical Liu Bei and I want to learn more about this.

If anyone has any input it would be greatly appreciated.
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Unread postby Ma Meng Han » Sun Mar 26, 2006 6:05 pm

Now that you mention it, why doesn't Liu Bei have a SGZ biography? Was he seen as less important than the others or what? But they have bios for people like Mi Zhu and Cao Ang... :?:
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Unread postby iamnick » Sun Mar 26, 2006 6:08 pm

he does. Kongming just doesn't have it translated. You can find it at http://www.3kingdoms.net/forum/
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Unread postby Sun Gongli » Sun Mar 26, 2006 6:38 pm

Part of the reason for the confusion might be that, in the Book of Shu, Liu Bei's biography isn't the first one, unlike those of Wei and Wu having Cao Cao and Sun Jian as the first entry. Rather, Liu Yan and Liu Zhang take up the first slot, which is pretty odd.
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Unread postby Jordan » Sun Mar 26, 2006 8:07 pm

Not really, because they were lords of the Shu territory before Liu Bei. They were like precursors to Bei. :D

And the historical Liu Bei was awesome. He was a really good general but he was extremely ambitious and deceitful. He wasn't really as virtuous as in the novel but he was still an interesting character (the novel makes it seem like Liu Bei is stupid and incompetent and had to rely on Zhuge Liang but in reality Liu Bei commanded and planned out the strategies for many of his own fights and was not just a virtuous, bumbling idiot).
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Unread postby CaTigeReptile » Sun Mar 26, 2006 9:00 pm

Dr. Rafe DeCrespigny translated part of the ZZTJ on his page. That's where I learned about Liu Bei crying because his thighs were fat.

To me, that pretty much sums up Liu Bei. :lol:

Well, I have to admit a little bias - I don't really like Liu Bei, so I don't mean to start any kind of debate as to the merits of Liu Bei. Clearly he had some kind of ability because he, um, led what would become the kingdom of Shu. I give him points for charisma. But. . I still don't like him and you can't make me. (Yes, I've read his SGZ) :P
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Unread postby GanNing » Mon Mar 27, 2006 12:07 am

iamnick wrote:he does. Kongming just doesn't have it translated. You can find it at http://www.3kingdoms.net/forum/


Thank you for letting me know this. Do you know where it is within the forums? I tried to search for it, but it rejected the search because both "liu" and "bei" don't have 4 letters.
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Unread postby GanNing » Mon Mar 27, 2006 12:08 am

CaTigeReptile wrote:Dr. Rafe DeCrespigny translated part of the ZZTJ on his page. That's where I learned about Liu Bei crying because his thighs were fat.

To me, that pretty much sums up Liu Bei. :lol:

Well, I have to admit a little bias - I don't really like Liu Bei, so I don't mean to start any kind of debate as to the merits of Liu Bei. Clearly he had some kind of ability because he, um, led what would become the kingdom of Shu. I give him points for charisma. But. . I still don't like him and you can't make me. (Yes, I've read his SGZ) :P


What exactly is the ZZTJ? And where can I find it?

I have seen people say there is a vast difference between the SGYY Liu Bei and the historical one. I just want to read it for myself, you know?
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Unread postby James » Mon Mar 27, 2006 5:02 am

GanNing wrote:Thank you for letting me know this. Do you know where it is within the forums? I tried to search for it, but it rejected the search because both "liu" and "bei" don't have 4 letters.

http://www.3kingdoms.net/forum/showthre ... eadid=9127
Scroll down to Liu Bei. It is a password protected PDF file. :)
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Unread postby GanNing » Mon Mar 27, 2006 2:22 pm

James wrote:
GanNing wrote:Thank you for letting me know this. Do you know where it is within the forums? I tried to search for it, but it rejected the search because both "liu" and "bei" don't have 4 letters.

http://www.3kingdoms.net/forum/showthre ... eadid=9127
Scroll down to Liu Bei. It is a password protected PDF file. :)


Got it. I downloaded it this morning, thanks for pointing it out to me.
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