What if Lu Bu was Spared at Xia Pi Castle?

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What if Lu Bu was Spared at Xia Pi Castle?

Unread postby GuoJia122 » Tue Nov 29, 2005 3:32 am

To me Lu Bu would have killed Cao Cao. But wouldn't that make Zhang Liao go to Shu or Wu? If Lu Bu was spared he'd probably kill Cao Cao and try to start a new Empire.
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Unread postby Jordan » Tue Nov 29, 2005 3:53 am

I think he would have probably tried to kill Cao Cao or simply ran away. Once he fled nobody would accept him into service and he would die in some strange and ironic way. Maybe he would go hunting a giant red, rabid hare would claw at him or something. :lol: Though in all likelihood I do not think he could kill Cao Cao. Mengde survived a hell of a lot and really he was not an easy target to kill. Even if he did manage to kill Cao Cao and base himself in one territory or another, remnants of Cao Cao's force along with numerous other factions would turn against him. By the time of Xia Pi I don't think Lu Bu really had a chance. >_>
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Unread postby GuoJia122 » Tue Nov 29, 2005 4:04 am

Yeah i guess but to me he would either kill Liu Bei or Cao Cao, but it is kinda ironic that after killing so many he'd plea for himself to be spared. When he died in the SGYY one line of the poem about his death says And his taste for father flesh! :? :shock:
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Unread postby Cao Ah Man » Tue Nov 29, 2005 7:04 am

Hmm...to tell the truth, I doubt Lu Bu would have ever gotten the chance to kill Cao Cao. Two things. Cao Cao was MUCH MUCH brighter than Ding Yuan or Dong Zhuo. He would've known HOW to control and utilize Lu Bu. Also, knowing Cao Cao, it's most likely that he would use Lu Bu as much as he could...until he felt that Lu Bu was plotting against him. Then he could easily with his tricks, deciet and cunning, get the might Bu killed while keeping his hands clean of the whole affair. In any event, Lu Bu would NOT have died a natural death.
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Unread postby Jordan » Tue Nov 29, 2005 7:53 am

If Lu Bu joined Mengde I doubt the latter would ever trust him with anything extremely important. This would be his way of controlling him. He would also move him around from place to place so he never built up any kind of great influence in any single area. Warlords sometimes grew afraid of powerful vassals and moved them around like this. (Example: After Lu Dai conquered Jiao, Sun Quan almost immediately made him relocate) Furthermore because of Lu Bu's bad track record Cao Cao would try hard not to let history repeat itself. (Although to be honest who's to say that Lu Bu suddenly wouldn't change? He could, possibly. Nobody knew what he was thinking or what he might think at the time or in the future regarding his loyalty.)
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Unread postby Dong Zhou » Tue Nov 29, 2005 9:11 am

I get the impression that Lu Bu was exhuasted and had no wish to try to rule alone again. His wish to surrender a year before, the fact that he surrendered at the end, his fine speech to Cao Cao seem to point to it.

I think he would be a fine vassal if Cao Cao didn't try to kill him or something
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Unread postby Walker » Tue Nov 29, 2005 1:48 pm

As MengDe said, he is a wild beast who knows not of loyalty.

He betrayed two masters previous, and would continue to do so if possible. He took advantage of obvious situations, and never thought anything through, that was a job for advisors.Whom he routinely ignored.
If Lu Bu had lived, he would have done something stupid and died elsewhere.
Psst, KOEI, your Shu bias is showing!
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Unread postby LiuBeiwasGreat » Tue Nov 29, 2005 7:09 pm

I have to agree with Dong Zhuo here. I don't think that Lu Bu really wanted to rule anymore. He had quite a few officers betray him, and he had just lost once again to Cao Cao. I think that he really would have served Cao Cao loyaly. Cao Cao really knew how to treat his officers. Lu Bu had never had a leader who trully appreciated him before so i think that he would have served Cao Cao well.
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Unread postby urbanterrorist » Tue Nov 29, 2005 11:35 pm

Though in all likelihood I do not think he could kill Cao Cao. Mengde survived a hell of a lot and really he was not an easy target to kill.


Wrong. I quote Michael Corleone from the Godfather II. "If there is anything history has taught us. It is that you can kill anyone."
Cao Cao was no more suseptible to being killed than Liu Bei or some other persons during the 3k era.

However not to stray from the topic. If Cao Cao had spared Liu Bei, there is no doubt that Cao Cao would be a dead man. Even if Cao Cao constantly ordered Lu Bu around, Lu Bu would finally sieze the opportunity and seek revenge. Lu Bu is a man who sees no integrity in honor and loyalty. He reminds me of Akuma from Street Fighter. Kill those who are weak and then kill some more. Plus Lu Bu could have easily taken on any of Cao Cao's generals.
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Unread postby Zhao Yun '87 » Wed Nov 30, 2005 2:09 am

You are all looking at Lu Bu wrong. Lu Bu was not a merciless killer nor was he extremely disloyal. He was just very gullible, and yes somewhat disloyal but only in the fact he thought of himself first. Which means he was about as loyal as people today. He also didn't have the need to rule and after having a swing at it and failing constantly he prolly would have realized it's not for him and been content with having his life.

Cao Cao considered sparing him because Lu Bu offered to lead Cao's cavalry, which would pretty much make Cao Cao near unstoppable. If he had spared him I have no doubt that Lu Bu would just be an officer of Cao's and not betray him or kill him. Just a rather talented officer, atleast during this era where in a straight fight Lu would prolly win every time, serving Cao Cao.
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