Mengde and Caesar

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Mengde and Caesar

Unread postby Mistelten » Mon Nov 21, 2005 3:22 pm

First off, let me say that I'm a Wei-ist. I think Cao Cao is the hero of the age, and he is a good comparison with Julius Caesar historically and in the novel. So what do you think?

Some similarities:

Expanded their territories immensely.
Noblemen with a knack for politics, but famous for their wars.
Both wrote books on warfare based on their experience. Caesar's Gallic Wars being read even until WW2 (a favorite of Chesty Puller's).
Both had a blood oath against them.
Both incredibly ambitious.
Both fought definitive battles against an old friend.
Both managed to have the political power close to an emperor while posing as something else (Caesar went the extra mile, but Cao Cao made opposition seem more helpless).
Both were succeeded by men who would become divine emperors.
Both changed the face of their nations forever.

Feel free to compare their merits and even go into VS a little too.

I think Caesar was a better conquerer, while Cao Cao was better at getting his enemies to play into his hands. Cao made good use of the northern tribes and the Gongsuns to finish off the Yuans, and if I am correct, he kept order by tightening the laws.
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Unread postby Gal Jon » Mon Nov 21, 2005 4:27 pm

Both were very good when out numbered and out manoovered. Like where Cao Cao is beseiged by Yuan Shao, and Caeser surrounded by Vertingeterix. They both inspired their troops well
Zhang Liao-----------"Oh its more than we could have asked for"

Is it me or does that sound more like a Zhang He saying!!
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Unread postby urbanterrorist » Mon Nov 21, 2005 8:22 pm

Both are in fictional stories.
They miss the whisper that runs any day in your mind,
"Who are you really, wanderer?" and the answer you have to give
no matter how dark and cold the world around you is:
"Maybe I'm a king. -William Stafford
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Unread postby Lafeel » Mon Nov 21, 2005 9:41 pm

Both are, inarguably, candidates for the greatest general in history..

Mind you I think it's impossible to pick any one person for that title..
age:29 (the previos one was two years out of date)
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Unread postby Mistelten » Mon Nov 21, 2005 10:19 pm

urbanterrorist wrote:Both are in fictional stories.

You mean both became popular in stories, or that both are completely fake? Because if it's the latter, I think the cards are stacked against you
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Unread postby urbanterrorist » Mon Nov 21, 2005 10:27 pm

No I should have clarified what I was trying to say. Julius Caesar appears in the the plays Julius Ceasar by William Shakespeare and Cao Cao is one of the main characters in The Romance of the Three Kingdoms by Luo Guanzhong.
They miss the whisper that runs any day in your mind,
"Who are you really, wanderer?" and the answer you have to give
no matter how dark and cold the world around you is:
"Maybe I'm a king. -William Stafford
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Unread postby Walker » Mon Nov 21, 2005 11:19 pm

Hurray! Another Wei-ist! It seems that the novel makes many either Shu-ist or Wu-ist, but I can agree that Mengde and Ceaser do have a lot in common. If I'm not mistaken though, Cao Cao outlived Ceaser. And he was assasinated as well.
Psst, KOEI, your Shu bias is showing!
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Unread postby nicopatch » Tue Nov 22, 2005 5:00 pm

but cao cao was not assainated by about 10 guys and his last words wernt
"et tu brute"

also cao cao captured the emporer where ceaser was the emperer
cao caos son took over ceasers nethew (octavion)took over
there a lot of differnces litlle one but important
we do not ask how many or who just where they are
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Unread postby Lafeel » Tue Nov 22, 2005 5:02 pm

nicopatch wrote:but cao cao was not assainated by about 10 guys and his last words wernt
"et tu brute"

also cao cao captured the emporer where ceaser was the emperer
cao caos son took over ceasers nethew (octavion)took over
there a lot of differnces litlle one but important

Cesar was never emperor. That was why they assassinated him, they were worried he'd declare himself a one, and thus end the roman republic..
age:29 (the previos one was two years out of date)
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Unread postby Cao Chao » Tue Nov 22, 2005 6:00 pm

Julius Caesar was merely Dictator, not Emperor. His grandnephew, Octavius, who he adopted, was the one who destroyed the Roman Republic becoming first Emperor of the Roman Empire. This emulates Cao Cao and his son and heir, Cao Pi. Cao Cao controlled everything, but never usurped the throne. Cao Pi did.
曹操曰:宁教我负天下人,休教天下人负我!
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