Kongming's Archives Development/Encyclopedia Project

Join the Romance of the Three Kingdoms discussion with our resident Scholars. Topics relating to the novel and history are both welcome. Don't forget to check the Forum Rules before posting.
Kongming’s Archives: Romance of the Three Kingdoms
Three Kingdoms Officer Biographies
Three Kingdoms Officer Encyclopedia
Scholars of Shen Zhou Search Tool

Unread postby James » Tue Dec 13, 2005 9:16 am

If anyone is curious what the project looks like now, here’s a picture:

Image

It has been cleaned up a lot, and error handling has been improved quite a bit. A number of bugs have been fixed thanks to the people who are helping out, and I’m now starting to look into expanding it. For example, that link on the right that reads ‘File’ expands more information on a listing (see Guan Yu). This will allow a huge amount of information to be hidden and shown as the user wishes without taking up too much space. The ‘^’ is just a jump link to the top of the page (important considering it isn’t hard to list 40 officers at once). Additional links will be added, visible depending on permissions.

Note that the ‘File’ option in this example is an administrative option, as the 'Filename' is the filename used at Kongming’s Archives, and the 'Search/Sort' field is the string referenced when searching and sorting officer names alphabetically (it is what allows a search for '5 tigers' to bring up the Five Tiger Generals of Shu). This will be used for things like 1-3 paragraph biographies, name notes, and a new feature I’m thinking of adding called a ‘scratch box’ which is basically just a text field people can add notes and thoughts into without losing them, as they will be stored on the server.

I’ll probably do things like <i>Sanguo yanyi</i> biographies with a concept I’ll call ‘extensions’. There will/may be extensions for projects that need them. It will basically be a link at the top you can click to load the extension, which will enable extra information in the searches (information that would be disabled by default to cut down on load and display times). Another option is to add edit and delete buttons to each officer (obviously the delete button wouldn’t appear for most users) which would launch an editor for only one officer. This would make it easy to include biographies.

Current Goal
Next I’m going to edit the project so it displays special and Chinese characters in decimal rather than actually showing the character. This would save the project from someone logging in with no Chinese character support, updating, and replacing all the Hanzi in the updated officers with boxes. Once that’s done, hanzi editing and name notes can also be added.

Future Tools
Once all the default functionality of this tool is added, including the ability to add new entries (given proper permissions), the logical next step would be to create new tools on subjects like artwork, weapons, provinces, etc. That’s when we’ll really see what this project can do.

- - - - - - - - - - -

Thank you very much to the small group of people working on this project. Your feedback and contributions really help out, and it makes me happy to see this turning into something. It is also really inspiring me to research and work on some things I didn’t before. A while down the road I’ll try to think of something really cool to do for all of you.
Kongming’s Archives – Romance of the Three Kingdoms Novel, History and Games
“ They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety.”
  — Ben Franklin
User avatar
James
Sausaged Fish
Sausaged Fish
 
Posts: 17958
Joined: Fri Jun 14, 2002 3:21 pm
Location: Happy Valley, UT

Unread postby Jordan » Tue Dec 13, 2005 9:39 am

I am still a bit confused with the project. I re-read the topic and looked at the screenshots and I think that it's pretty cool that you can search things such as "Wei Elite 5" or "Tiger Generals" and what-not but what exactly do the users do for this? Do they just add additional terms that you can search to bring up an officer or edit officer information like what kingdoms they're from? Or are they just looking for bugs and testing everything done so far? Like for instance if I was working on this project could I alter Ma Chao's so it says: "Kingdom(s) Ma Teng/Ma Chao/Zhang Lu/Shu-Han" instead of it cutting off at Zhang Lu or make it so that...for instance if you searched Gonglu it came up with Yuan Shu or something? Or modify Jian Yong's mini-bio based on what Lady Wu translated to say something like "Originally served Mi Zhu. Later persuaded Liu Zhang to surrender to Liu Bei?" (One of his big accomplishments, when looking for Ma Chao stuff I read in Zhizhi Tongjian that Liu Zhang had ample supplies and lots of troops and could last far more time. Against the will of his advisors he agreed to surrender to Liu Bei after persuasion from Jian Yong) Or am I entirely missing the goal of this project? :? If you need people to just look over stuff and edit in various small pieces of information like the mini-bio, style names, whatever I might be able to help and just do some minor stuff.
User avatar
Jordan
Scholar of Shen Zhou
 
Posts: 5884
Joined: Thu Dec 02, 2004 4:52 am

Unread postby Douglas » Tue Dec 13, 2005 5:32 pm

Slick,

Your Ma Chao bio is looking good; let me know when it's done. For what it's worth, "Wei Elite Five" doesn't pull up anything yet.


James, his signature reminded me about something...

Ma Chao.

I notice in the pic above, it says Ma Chao was the Five Tiger 3, but it also says that he died in 225, and this fact is underscored by the listed source: Sanguozhi.

Is the tool supposed to be used to define Zhi or Yanyi?

The Sanguozhi says he died in 222, I believe, rather than the Romance's 225.

So are we configuring historical details, or Romance details?
Douglas
Scholar
 
Posts: 317
Joined: Wed Sep 28, 2005 6:16 pm
Location: USA

Unread postby Dong Zhou » Tue Dec 13, 2005 5:37 pm

I belive historical information would get the date rather then the novel one.
“You, are a rebellious son who abandoned his father. You are a cruel brigand who murdered his lord. How can Heaven and Earth put up with you for long? And unless you die soon, how can you face the sight of men?”
User avatar
Dong Zhou
A-Dou
A-Dou
 
Posts: 16051
Joined: Sun Apr 10, 2005 12:32 pm
Location: "Now we must die. May Your Majesty maintain yourself"

Response.

Unread postby Douglas » Tue Dec 13, 2005 5:39 pm

That's what I was thinking, but the "Five Tigers" are fictional.
Douglas
Scholar
 
Posts: 317
Joined: Wed Sep 28, 2005 6:16 pm
Location: USA

Unread postby Dong Zhou » Tue Dec 13, 2005 6:03 pm

true, which would normally cuase me to say update the bio but should we include the five tigers? They share the same bio's and are sort of considered the three tigers so can we put in the real death but keep calling them 5 Tigers?
“You, are a rebellious son who abandoned his father. You are a cruel brigand who murdered his lord. How can Heaven and Earth put up with you for long? And unless you die soon, how can you face the sight of men?”
User avatar
Dong Zhou
A-Dou
A-Dou
 
Posts: 16051
Joined: Sun Apr 10, 2005 12:32 pm
Location: "Now we must die. May Your Majesty maintain yourself"

Unread postby Jordan » Wed Dec 14, 2005 12:09 am

Thanks Douglas I'm *almost* done. Anyways I like that it mentions that Ma Chao, Guan Yu, Zhang Fei, Huang Zhong and Zhao Yun are 5 Tiger Generals. In Sonken's Ma Chao Sanguozhi at the end it appears that Chen Shou even made a footnote on them.* Although the 5 Tigers quite possibly did not exist, only sanguozhi and sanguo yanyi pages on the 5 Tigers are currently on the site anyways. It's also just handy and cool that you can look up 5 Tigers as a custom search and get a page showing all of those characters with links to whatever bios have been finished of them. For the dates I agree that the Sanguozhi ones should be listed but it's just an opinion.

*-Chen Shou references them, according to Sonken in the following way:
"Chen Shou’s final thoughts on the Five Tiger Generals: Guan Yu, Zhang Fei, etc were known to be powerful generals who could fight ten thousand men and accredited to be among the best of their times. Guan Yu repaid Lord Cao’s favour, Zhang Fei’s releasing of Yan Yan out of righteousness were deeds held in high esteem in the country. However, Guan Yu was unyielding and overly self-respect, whereas Zhang Fei was hot-tempered and without kindness, their short-comings leading to their defeats. This is common logic indeed. Ma Chao betrayed the minority tribes and lacked courage; he was a disappointment for his people, what a pity! Having been able to rise from rags to riches, is this not better? Huang Zhong and Zhao Yun both strong and valiant were good subordinates of their lord, like the claws and teeth to a beast. Can they not compare to the likes of Guan Yin and Xiahou Yin?" Because in both the sanguozhi and the sanguo yanyi they call these 5 the Tiger Generals of Shu I think it should be kept in their quick bio or whatever and be available as a custom search.
User avatar
Jordan
Scholar of Shen Zhou
 
Posts: 5884
Joined: Thu Dec 02, 2004 4:52 am

Unread postby James » Wed Dec 14, 2005 8:48 am

The objective of the quick bio is very simple: to help people recognize which officer they are actually looking at. To this end, if something is fictional, but everyone knows about it, it actually has a very solid home in that listing. In the case of the Five Tiger Generals, it becomes even more important, because when people think about Guan Yu, Zhang Fei, Ma Chao, Huang Zhong, and Zhao Yun, ‘Five Tiger Generals’ is the very first thing that comes to mind. We should make sure we don’t replace good familiar information in this field.

As for the date, we go with the historical reference. The tool asks for a source, and won’t let you downgrade (e.g. if you try to enter a SGYY lifespan to replace a SGZ lifespan, it will throw an error, and ask you to delete the record first, which requires having permissions to do so). This helps to protect the integrity of information that is in place. On the other hand, everyone has the authority to replace a listed lifespan, which they are free to do if they are certain of the changes they are making.

- - - - -

Re: SlickSlicer

Basically, this is the foundation of a tool that will allow people who are part of the project to update and add new information to Kongming’s Archives. Right now the information people can affect is the mini biographies that appear in the hanzi project and in the biographies project, along with the lifespans listed. They can also change the kingdoms an officer has served. As time passes, more and more features will be added, and they will be able to do more and more things.

(For example, we might have a new project on Three Kingdoms weapons which is managed exclusively through a tool based on this one and part of the Development Project).

They are also, of course, testing the project. Because this gives anyone who has access the ability to update content on Kongming’s Archives, it has to be secure, and it has to run in a very reliable and consistent way. It won’t due to have it randomly eating up information that will be hard to replace.

You wrote, “if you searched Gonglu it came up with Yuan Shu or something?” That is a restricted part of the project which I may make available to all members with proper explanation. For example, Guan Yu’s search string is, “guan yu yunchang guan gong kuan yu five 5 tigers generals”. It matches your search to combinations across the search string. For example, searches for “Guan Gong”, “Kuan Yu”, “Tigers”, Yunchang”, or even, though it doesn’t make sense, “Guan Tiger”, will result in Guan Yu being listed.

Your thought of Jian Yong’s mini bio is exactly why this project exists. His current mini-bio is, “Originally served as an advisor to Tao Qian.” A member of the project, for example, could update it to something like, “Originally served Mi Zhu. Later persuaded Liu Zhang to surrender to Liu Bei,” making it clearer for everyone. This gives everyone a chance to share their knowledge, and the long-term goal is to turn these projects and the information on KMA into something much greater than I could ever create on my own or even through carefully selected submissions.

We’re not looking for people to kind of look over things, really, but if that is what a person wanted to do, they would be welcome. They would also be more than welcome if they wanted to start tearing through our 880 officer database adding new information for the people listed to help Kongming’s Archives, and the information resources available on its pages, grow.
Kongming’s Archives – Romance of the Three Kingdoms Novel, History and Games
“ They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety.”
  — Ben Franklin
User avatar
James
Sausaged Fish
Sausaged Fish
 
Posts: 17958
Joined: Fri Jun 14, 2002 3:21 pm
Location: Happy Valley, UT

Unread postby Kong Wen » Wed Dec 14, 2005 9:01 am

James wrote:You wrote, “if you searched Gonglu it came up with Yuan Shu or something?” That is a restricted part of the project which I may make available to all members with proper explanation. For example, Guan Yu’s search string is, “guan yu yunchang guan gong kuan yu five 5 tigers generals”. It matches your search to combinations across the search string. For example, searches for “Guan Gong”, “Kuan Yu”, “Tigers”, Yunchang”, or even, though it doesn’t make sense, “Guan Tiger”, will result in Guan Yu being listed.

Out of pure curiosity, do the words "guan" and "yu" need to be in the search string twice then? Because Guan Yu and Guan Gong are both in there, and Guan Yu and Kuan Yu are both in there in their entireties. Also, will "tiger" search Guan Yu even though the only term in there is "tigers" with an 's'? Additionally, how thorough do you plan to make the search strings? I notice his old style, Changsheng, isn't in there, nor is the Wade-Giles version of his style, Yun-ch'ang (even though the Wade-Giles Kuan Yu is there).
"We spread the time as we can, but in the end the world takes it all back."
— Roland Deschain, Wolves of the Calla
User avatar
Kong Wen
The Bronze Age of SoSZ
The Bronze Age of SoSZ
 
Posts: 11857
Joined: Tue Jul 22, 2003 7:38 pm
Location: Canada

Unread postby Jordan » Wed Dec 14, 2005 9:11 am

Ah I understand the quick biography thing now. That really is a great idea. I remember when I first started looking at Kongming's Archives biographies all the various names of generals baffled me. This might not be a good example because I'm not sure when it was added but today for instance it might confuse people to see Lu Xun in Shu and in Wu if there was not the mini-bio to explain that Lu Xun in Wu was responsible for the victory at Yiling while Lu Xun in Shu was simply a completely different officer. Well I can help with kingdoms served and wading through the novel and the various bios to help modify quick bios to clarify certain officers. If you need an extra hand I'm willing to signup and it should be interesting to see how this project develops and grows with time. I'm curious about the search thing too such as if plurals allow you to search the singular word and get a result like tigers as Kong Wen pointed out. Also if you search for instance "Gong" will it also come up with people who have that root in their style name? Example: Gongtai-Chen Gong or Gonglu-Yuan Shu. Some characters styles are even similar to other people's real names such as for instance Shi Xie=Weiyan.
User avatar
Jordan
Scholar of Shen Zhou
 
Posts: 5884
Joined: Thu Dec 02, 2004 4:52 am

PreviousNext

Return to Sanguo Yanyi Symposium

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 4 guests

Copyright © 2002–2008 Kongming’s Archives. All Rights Reserved