Kongming's Archives Development/Encyclopedia Project

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Re: Kongming's Archives Development/Encyclopedia Project

Unread postby James » Thu Oct 24, 2013 9:15 pm

Tarrot wrote:More a procedure question: Is there a date where we stop adding people to the Encyclopedia? As an example, Sima Zhong and Jia Nanfeng. Technically, they didn't take power until well after the 3K era ended, although they did act prior to the 280 cutoff point when Wu fell. Can/should they be added into the Encyclopedia for their connections/role in the fall of Jin, or should they be kept out?

There's no cut-of point for adding them, but the general rule of thumb is some relation to the Three Kingdoms period, the novel, or games. Basically anyone mentioned in the novel should be in the Encyclopedia. Just use your bed judgment from there? If it is someone worth highlighting for one reason or another as a key descendant (or ancestor) they can be tossed in. If they're a special figure which our community/audience would be interested in consider tossing them in. Or heck, if for some reason you think they should be in there. We're just not trying to catalog Han and Jin with this.
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Re: Kongming's Archives Development/Encyclopedia Project

Unread postby Jordan » Mon Oct 28, 2013 7:49 pm

The following is simply my opinion:

The Three Kingdoms period ended in AD 280 with the fall of Wu. Except in special cases like notable historians (under miscellany entries) or significant descendants of important figures, I'd imagine that anybody born after AD 280 is well "beyond the scope" of the three kingdoms.

I forget if I added him or edited him, but one of the chronologically dated last figures I worked on in the encyclopedia was the Xiongnu chieftain Liu Yuan. I thought Liu Yuan was relevant to the encyclopedia for a few reasons. One was that he was born before AD 280 so technically can be considered a person of the period. He and his father were already unifying the Xiongnu during the 3k. Another is that he played a decisive role in the fall of Western Jin.

Though it's a bit of a stretch, I kind of believe that Jia Nanfeng is worth adding. She is somebody who a lot of people are interested in. Additionally, she was born before AD 280. She is definitely more relevant to the succeeding Western Jin than to the Three Kingdoms era admittedly.

Anybody from Eastern Jin, I imagine, would be out of the question as by that time the 3k was long done.
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Re: Kongming's Archives Development/Encyclopedia Project

Unread postby Dong Zhou » Wed Nov 20, 2013 12:57 pm

I think the two Chen Qian's are the same person judging by Tarrot's wiki translation? If he is, we should look at deleting one
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Re: Kongming's Archives Development/Encyclopedia Project

Unread postby Tarrot » Tue Dec 03, 2013 7:08 pm

Weird thing: A search in the encyclopedia for Shi Miao returns Shi Zimiao, but doesn't return the eccentric Shi Miao http://kongming.net/encyclopedia/Shi-Mao I think it might be because he's listed as Shi Mao at the top.

Also, when editting, the Chinese for his name/style name. Shi Miao 时苗 Dezhou 德胄

His Baidu lists him as living from 150-220, and they put forward an argument that him being listed as around in the 240s was a mistake due to other factors.
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Re: Kongming's Archives Development/Encyclopedia Project

Unread postby James » Tue Dec 03, 2013 8:49 pm

Tarrot wrote:Weird thing: A search in the encyclopedia for Shi Miao returns Shi Zimiao, but doesn't return the eccentric Shi Miao http://kongming.net/encyclopedia/Shi-Mao I think it might be because he's listed as Shi Mao at the top.

Also, when editting, the Chinese for his name/style name. Shi Miao 时苗 Dezhou 德胄

His Baidu lists him as living from 150-220, and they put forward an argument that him being listed as around in the 240s was a mistake due to other factors.

You've got access to the editor, right?

I corrected the search issue. Something like that can happen when an officer is created under one name and changed to another. Some parts of this fix I need to handle manually, though.

I've updated everything but the lifespan. I'm not familiar with a Baidu. Is that some kind of Wiki associated with the Baidu search engine? And if you're not able to update it, is that 150-220 specific dates, or an estimate?
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Re: Kongming's Archives Development/Encyclopedia Project

Unread postby Cao Chao » Tue Dec 03, 2013 9:13 pm

Baidu is a Chinese language online encyclopedia (probably modeled after Wikipedia).
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Re: Kongming's Archives Development/Encyclopedia Project

Unread postby Tarrot » Tue Dec 03, 2013 9:15 pm

I got access, I just need to dig up my password in my PMs somewhere.

Baike/Baidu is what China had before they allowed Wikipedia. They also have wikipedia in Chinese, which is where I'm doing my bios from in the Jin thread, but Baidu was the initial version they had. I'd have to go reread the Shi Miao thing in more depth, but it seems like an approximation which they got at through factoring in certain things.

Translation, you can make of it what you want:

"Shi Miao's concrete birth and death dates are not clearly wrote down in history books, but let us evaluate it for a moment. "He passed away at 70, dying in the Zhengshi years of illness." Zhengshi is the time when Cao Fang was removed from power, 240-249, so if he passed away around 245 or so, at 70 years old, that'd be during the time Liu Hong held power as Emperor (168-189), there is source material that says Shi Miao was born in the 15th year of the Han's Jianxing, but the Han's Emperor Ling didn't establish a Jianxing timeframe, so this must be false. However, if we assume this to be the Jianning (168-172) timeperiod, around 171, then this would be accurate. According to research information about Pingxiang xian in Hebei sheng, Shi Miao in the 18th year of Jianan (196-219) period would be recommended as filial and incorrupt to be the Ling of Shouchun, and it also says that in 213, the about 40 year old Shi Miao would arrive at Shouxian to be named Ling of Shouchun. This year's historical background is: In the 18th year in the 5th month of Jianan, Emperor Xian would name Cao Cao Duke of Wei of the 10 counties of Hedong in Jizhou, along with Jiuxi, as well as Chengxiang Ling, and Mu of Jizhou as before. In the 7th month, Cao Cao would establish an ancestral temple in Wei, and later in Wei would establish a Shangshu, Shizhong, and 6 official positions, and Wei would become a state within a state, and in fact the core power of the region. Shi Miao during this timeframe would enter the Chengxiang's mansion, be named Shouchun Ling, as well as Taiguan Ling, Ling of his county and Zhongzheng, and as a result he'd appreciate Cao Cao's talent."

Ok, this makes things even stupider. By the information here, he'd have been born around 171 and die around 241, which completely contradicts what they wrote, and there's apparently no information that'd put him at dying around 220. Nevermind that.
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Re: Kongming's Archives Development/Encyclopedia Project

Unread postby Cao Chao » Tue Dec 03, 2013 9:19 pm

Tarrot wrote:"Shi Miao's concrete birth and death dates are not clearly wrote down in history books, but let us evaluate it for a moment. "He passed away at 70, dying in the Zhengshi years of illness."

The line states that he was in his seventies when he passed away, not that he was seventy.
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Re: Kongming's Archives Development/Encyclopedia Project

Unread postby Tarrot » Tue Dec 03, 2013 9:45 pm

Thanks, missed the 'yu' when I was running over everything.
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Re: Kongming's Archives Development/Encyclopedia Project

Unread postby Jolt » Wed Dec 04, 2013 8:16 pm

James, if you could grant me access to the editor as well that would be great. I browse the encyclopedia fairly frequently and I usually come across small mistakes that I'd like to correct. I had already requested in this thread a handful of times so far to no effect.
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