Liu Bei's skillz

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Unread postby Gabriel » Fri May 11, 2007 1:51 am

Zhuge made gains after his first northern campaign and the incident at Jieting.
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Unread postby Jebusrocks » Fri May 11, 2007 2:58 am

The guy became an Emperor from almost scratch (except his Royal Bloodline), no matter how much help he received, that is a great feat, not many man can do this
It is curious that the Americans, who calculate so carefully on the possibilities of military victory, do not realize that in the process they are incurring deep psychological and political defeat.
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Unread postby Zhilong » Fri May 11, 2007 5:38 am

Antiochus wrote:Ok, but Liu Bei made territorial gains that lasted after his death, while Zhuge's expantion north was cancelled by the defeat at Jie Ting.

ZL several times made temporary and sometimes great territorial gains but they were not kept after he retreated eg. Anding and his occupying of Qishan more than once.

However, on his 3rd campaign he captured 2 prefectures which were permanently incorporated into Shu: Wudu and Yinping.

Thus it is inaccurate to say that ZL's northern expansion was cancelled after his defeat in the first campaign.
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Unread postby Antiochus » Fri May 11, 2007 9:34 pm

Forgot those two, my bad.
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Unread postby iluvda49ers » Fri May 18, 2007 9:13 pm

Lui Bei's ability to gather men of capability around him. I don't think anyone could have pursuaded zhuge liang to leave nanyang except for him. Lui Bei's ability to use the wisely is not his strength.

Zhuge Liang could not have directed those battle plans without those capable generals that were dedicated to the Imperial Uncle.
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