Liu Zhang's SGZ wrote:The next year [CE 212], the First Sovereign was at Jiameng and directed his troops to the South and was winning everywhere.
Cao Cao's SGZ wrote:In the third month, the King advanced from Xie Gorge, ordered his army to secure strategic points, approached Hanzhong and subsequently reached Yangping. Liu Bei held out in the defence of the difficult terrain.
In the fifth month—summer—he led the army in withdrawal to Chang’an.
kvn_m wrote:In the novel, it's true that the battles he won are due to the prowess or wits of his generals and advisors. However, historically, it was he who made the moves to win battles and gain territories. The other person who's similar to Liu Bei would be Cao Cao, Yuan Shao and Sun Ce who expanded their forces. Yuan Shao managed to take over Gongsun Zan; Sun Ce managed to pacify the southerlands; Liu Bei managed to take Jingzhou or Yizhou. Whether they're spectacular or not, I believe it's more important than defending Chi Bi or defending He Fei. Chi Bi and He Fei are both BIG victories. It's good. But in taking Yizhou, I actually compare it to the battle of Guan Du. Even if it wasn't a show of feat as much as it was in Guan Du, I believe that Liu Bei's action of taking Yizhou was almost as important as winning the battle of Guan Du.
SlickSlicer wrote:Yawn well my main argument about Liu Bei's command skills come from "Claim to the Mandate" from Generals of the South. On pages 6,7,8 & perhaps a little bit onward, Dr. Rafe de Crispigny says for instance "Liu Bei just over 60 years old planned the strategies and gave the orders in person." Things like that. Most of his decisions, at least from what I read seemed to be pretty wise. I don't know about Fa Zheng, I was just asking.
http://www.anu.edu.au/asianstudies/decr ... index.html
(Read Claim to the Mandate pages 6 and onwards to see what I mean. That quote comes from page 7 I think)
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