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Zhao Yun, equal of Guan Yu and Zhang Fei?

Unread postPosted: Sat Jun 18, 2005 11:11 am
by Elitemsh
Historical data says Zhao Yun was a powerful general and a match for anyone. However some say that Zhao Yun was nothing more than a loyal bodyguard, nothing like Guan Yu and Zhang Fei. Was Zhao Yun underestimated as a warrior or overestimated?. The novel gives Zhao Yun great credit for his acheivements and say in some ways he was superior to Guan Yu and Zhang Fei. In one incident he is described as very meticulous my nature in sparing Cai Mao and being thorough in a position where Guan Yu and Zhang Fei would have immediately jumped to conclusions and killed Cai Mao. Cai Mao was guilty, however, in another situation Guan Yu and Zhang Fei may have killed an innocent person, whereas Zhao Yun would obtain as much evidence as possible, and therefore be more just. If Zhao Yun was overestimated why would he be overestimated more than Guan and Zhang Fei?

Unread postPosted: Sat Jun 18, 2005 11:53 am
by REMIX
IMO i think Zhao Yun may just be an equal to Guan Yu as Guan Yu, when leaving Cao Cao, went and defeated several officers and generals on his own and saved Liu Bei's wives. Zhao Yun was in a similar position in Chang Ban when he saved Liu Shan and killed several officers and generals on his way.

Unread postPosted: Sat Jun 18, 2005 1:23 pm
by Dong Zhou
Eh you go historical data and then the novel... yes in the novel he is good but acts part time bodyguard, part time general

History I'm pretty sure doesn't include the Cai Mao thing but he isn't too bad, espically at rearguard actions

Unread postPosted: Sat Jun 18, 2005 1:50 pm
by brigadier liao hua
I think Zhao yun was equal to the brothers but only novel-wise

Re: Zhao Yun, equal of Guan Yu and Zhang Fei?

Unread postPosted: Sat Jun 18, 2005 2:26 pm
by Iain
elitemsh wrote:Historical data says Zhao Yun was a powerful general and a match for anyone.
Can you provide a link to this historical data that states Zhao Yun was powerful and a match for anyone. His SGZ bio is hereand its pretty short and unremarkable really.

Unread postPosted: Sat Jun 18, 2005 2:57 pm
by Famed Hero
I'd say that Zilong was a great warrior and loyal servant, but he was no stellar general. He would be comparable to Dian Wei or Xu Chu, maybe Zhou Tai at best. SGYY made him out to be a fierce, invincible warrior but in reality he was a good warrior and stellar bodyguard.

Unread postPosted: Sat Jun 18, 2005 4:16 pm
by Shield of Rohan
He was probably the lesser general among the Five Tigers, having credits to his name but no outstanding victories as a captain. As a warrior, he was among the best of his time.

A good general, and a great warrior, a man of valor and honor, and as another mentioned, probably compared best with Zhou Tai.

Unread postPosted: Sun Jun 19, 2005 10:48 am
by Elitemsh
I believe the reason Zhao Yun had less achievements to his name than Huang Zhong, for example, is because he was not as impulsive or insecure. Huang Zhong was a glory hound, like Wei Yan but not as reckless, he felt insecure due to his age and had a continual need to prove himself. Zhao Yun, on the other hand was a true warrior, he did not need to continually prove himself in battle. Zhao Yun was stronger and smarter than Huang Zhong, he just did not need to show it. Huang Zhong's only deed that gave him fame and respect was the victory at Mt Jing Dun and the slaying of Xiahou Yuan (one of Wei's supposed best generals). Xiahou Yuan, lest we forget, was reckless and foolish so Huang Zhong's deed was not as good as some claim. In my opinion, Zhao Yun was the best of the tigers and had no exploitable flaws as Chen Shou says in his biography.

Unread postPosted: Sun Jun 19, 2005 2:41 pm
by Lu Kang
Zhao Yun himself fought in several campaigns and led troops on occasion. Under review of all their military deeds and actions I'd think that Zhao Yun is a better commander then Guan Yu and perhaps not as good as Zhang Fei. It's hard to tell at times because both ZHang Fei and Zhao Yun have similiar feats and a veyr small sample size of them at that.

So my ranking would be:

Zhang Fei > Zhao Yun > Guan Yu

Unread postPosted: Mon Jun 20, 2005 1:18 pm
by Zhilong
I doubt Zhao Yun has the ability to command independent operations of any real scale.