Zhao Yun, equal of Guan Yu and Zhang Fei?

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Re: Zhao Yun, equal of Guan Yu and Zhang Fei?

Unread postby Zhao Yun '87 » Mon Nov 21, 2011 6:38 am

When the change happened to hero they based a lot of the Sherwood forest stuff off of William Wallace's early career as well.
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Re: Zhao Yun, equal of Guan Yu and Zhang Fei?

Unread postby Aventador951 » Sat Mar 03, 2012 10:11 am

I'm going to move away from this Robin Hood thing.

From where I think, Zhao Yun would be the equal of Guan Yu and Zhang Fei in just about everything except for his looks (I don't think Zhao Yun had any 2 foot-long beard or a lion's mane). In combat, Guan Yu mentioned that "Zhao Yun has followed my lord for many years" and would definitely place him as an equal. In strategy, Zhao Yun was just as capable as Guan Yu, let alone Zhang Fei, but not as capable (obviously) as Zhuge Liang. In Three Kingdoms, combat and strategy matters alot, so why wouldn't he be the equal of the Two Younger Oath Brothers?
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Re: Zhao Yun, equal of Guan Yu and Zhang Fei?

Unread postby Shen Ai » Sat Mar 03, 2012 4:12 pm

I think Zhang Fei is better than Zhao Yun as both a commander and a warrior. Zhang Fei actually led his army to victory over a highly talented general, Zhang He, and in the novel he held Lu Bu for fifty passes, Ma Chao for the same amount and scared off an army with his cunning.

Zhao Yun has the warrior thing down, but he is implied to be a bit lesser than Ma Chao in fighting ability so I'll go with Zhang Fei.
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Re: Zhao Yun, equal of Guan Yu and Zhang Fei?

Unread postby Striga » Sun Mar 04, 2012 4:02 am

Zhang Fei and Guan Yu were both older than Zhao Yun, probably accounting for Yun not being part of the three, alongside Yun joining much later since he served Gongsun Zan first. I'd agree with Fei being a better warrior than Yun, and possibly equal in strategy, but Fei and Yu have way too much hubrus, so Yun would probably be able to defeat either of them in battle or duelling.
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Re: Zhao Yun, equal of Guan Yu and Zhang Fei?

Unread postby Aventador951 » Sun Mar 04, 2012 10:03 am

Striga wrote:Zhang Fei and Guan Yu were both older than Zhao Yun, probably accounting for Yun not being part of the three, alongside Yun joining much later since he served Gongsun Zan first. I'd agree with Fei being a better warrior than Yun, and possibly equal in strategy, but Fei and Yu have way too much hubrus, so Yun would probably be able to defeat either of them in battle or duelling.


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Re: Zhao Yun, equal of Guan Yu and Zhang Fei?

Unread postby Zhao Yun '87 » Sun Mar 04, 2012 12:48 pm

In my personal opinion I find Zhao Yun as a very capable candidate for the most skilled warrior of the time. So I'd rank him ahead of either the other 2. As a general I'd place him equal, but they each had different styles.
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Re: Zhao Yun, equal of Guan Yu and Zhang Fei?

Unread postby Shen Ai » Sun Mar 04, 2012 7:46 pm

Striga wrote:Zhang Fei and Guan Yu were both older than Zhao Yun, probably accounting for Yun not being part of the three, alongside Yun joining much later since he served Gongsun Zan first. I'd agree with Fei being a better warrior than Yun, and possibly equal in strategy, but Fei and Yu have way too much hubrus, so Yun would probably be able to defeat either of them in battle or duelling.



Zhang Fei had some serious skills in the novel. He was a drunkard in the novel but when the time came to battle he was unmatched. He fought Lu Bu to fifty passes while he was not even in his prime. As a general, Zhao Yun lacks Zhang Fei's strategic talents completely. A good leader and an excellent cavalry leader, but not up to Fei's level as a warrior or as a general.

Besides, Guan Yu was a much batter warrior than Zhao Yun when he was in his prime. Most accept Zhang Fei as being even greater than Guan Yu in battle, as in the novel Guan Yu acknowledged it. Zhang Fei sweeps this.
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Re: Zhao Yun, equal of Guan Yu and Zhang Fei?

Unread postby Spurman » Mon Jan 20, 2014 1:43 pm

Reviving this old thread. Haha.

In popularity ratings, Zhao Yun, guan Yu would be among the most popular. More than Zhang fei maybe.

Many Chinese, esp hongkies n surprisingly triads worship guan Yu/ guan gong.

There's also a dedicated temple in china. Zhending county. Temple of Zhao Yun or known as general temple.

In folklore. The most famous 5 tigers in ranking is
1. Guan Yu, so called the leader
2. Zhang fei.
3. Zhao Yun

Guan Yu, Zhang fei are Liu bei's actual sworn brothers thus the brotherhood thingy makes them by default the most trustable generals. Zhao Yun met Liu bei much later but if Liu bei were to meet him earlier. Just maybe Zhao Yun will be one of the brother.

Anyway Zhao Yun is very highly regarded in china till today.

Most Chinese becoz of they way rotk was written into a novel and to so call make the novel more interesting, would need heroes n villians. So cao cao assume the villian role though how villian he really is, historians would not be able to give an accurate answer. Many Chinese though compare cao cao to Mao Zedong.

Anyway Zhao Yun true story will never be known. Liu bro, Zhang fei and guan Yu are more well known becoz they were together as brothers from small flies to become founder of shu. All Chinese love heroes like that thus they were so popular. But neither Zhang fei and guan Yu were perfect all rounder.

Zhao Yun become the 3rd most popular guy in that era becoz h had the charisma, bravery, loyalty and brawns like no other. He was like the common people's hero. It seems his soldiers like him a lot and Liu bei and zhuge Liang trust him the most amongst most generals.

Most of us here seems to mention that his rank is low. How low is low, what's his actual rank?

Zhuge Liang will not be our 3 star general, coz his role is to advise and strategize. In my country, zhuge Liang would be a politician, a prime minister, or minister level, like mi zhu, mi fang, Lu Su.

Zhao Yun would be a on the field general. But what rank we dun know.

The fact that the Chinese film makers decided to make a movie dedicated to Zhao Yun, albeit 30% truth. Staring Andy Lau, hk and Chinese biggest star. Only guan Yu manage to get a movie dedicated to himself too.

Of coz there's zhuge Liang where he also has his dedicated tv series too by Hong Kong in the 80s starring Adam Cheng.

What makes Zhao Yun stand out so much more against haung Zhong and ma Chao?? Perhaps his all round and absolute loyalty and the tag "unbeatable general". A tag which is tagged to him. The only "defeat" was not a defeat in eyes of zhuge Liang as he complete his task and even does his task exceeding expectations.
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Re: Zhao Yun, equal of Guan Yu and Zhang Fei?

Unread postby AlaCarte » Tue Jan 21, 2014 9:52 am

In warrior terms

Zhao Yun is indeed a par higher as he fought Cao's generals in a eight-trigram formation alone, and was able to get out of the formation while protecting Liu Shan and slew about 50 generals. Of course, he got the black pommel to help him.

Guan Yu was able to kill 2 renowned generals of Yuan Shao, Yan Liang & Wen Chou as well as fighting through six passes of Cao Cao to reunite with Liu Bei. Including Hua Xiong during the battle of the Hulao pass.

I don't really know much about Zhang Fei tbh.

In commandering terms

Zhao Yun was able to trick the enemy at the battle of the Han River with an ambush and was able to obtain a great victory at the Han River. And lastly in the first of Zhuge Liang's Northern Expeditions, although he was defeated in the battle but he was able to be defeated without many casualties and with the supplies with him.

Guan Yu was able to see through the ambush in the banquet with Lu Su, and held Lu closely so that the soldiers did not dare to attack Guan Yu according the plan.

As for Zhang Fei, he managed to trick Cao Cao in believing that he got an ambush waiting for him at the Battle of ChangBan. While he only had 20 horsemen hiding behind the trees making dust rising up so that Cao Cao got the impression of an ambush by Zhuge Liang.

strongest -> weakest
Warrior skills: Zhao Yun, Guan Yu, Zhang Fei
Commandering Skills: Zhao Yun, Zhang Fei, Guan Yu
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Re: Zhao Yun, equal of Guan Yu and Zhang Fei?

Unread postby Spurman » Tue Jan 21, 2014 2:24 pm

I admit I was drawn to Zhao Yun by playing rotk, dynasty warriors and the novel. Though historically Zhao Yun definately was worshipped by many.

And also, of the 3 kingdoms, shu was the "good" guys. And "Wei" was evil. It was kind like drilled into the Chinese minds in literatures kind of Germany denying the holucast exist.

And who dun like a good guy a esp one who's undefeated and one who's like so flawless. Guan Yu was worshipped as a god becoz he represents loyalty. And becoz his deeds made him one. Remember in the era of no telephone, Internet, all these deeds are passed from mouth to mouth, turned into operas, puppet shows. A form of inspiration.

Zhao Yun feed at changban and at yingli,sorry i forgot the battle name. In 228ad though, the northern expeditions exploits. Against all odds, Zhao Yun delivered. And of coz his soldiers, the commoners pass on his deeds, repeated generations albeit maybe distorted a little. But definately his deeds were great enough to be so highly regarded by common folks back then to worship his actions and made the author of the novel an ardent fan of Zhao Yun.

And Zhao Yun was already defended by many historians that he's no bodyguard. He's a true general.
And some said his rank was low? But how low?
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