Zhao Yun, equal of Guan Yu and Zhang Fei?

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Unread postby Dong Zhou » Thu Jun 23, 2005 9:10 am

However, saving the child lord was an incredibly brave deed no matter what anyone says
It is if Cao Cao's men hadn't actully arrived yet

There is hardly anyone who would have had the guts to turn back into what Zhao Yun believed to be hordes of enemies just to rescue Liu Bei's family.


That is unfair on everyone else

Guan Yu and Zhang Fei would not have bothered to undoubtedly risk their life to save a worthless sap


Maybe becuase those two actully had jobs they couldn't abondan at said time.
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Unread postby Shield of Rohan » Thu Jun 23, 2005 3:00 pm

elitemsh wrote:It is true Zhao Yun accomplished less for Shu than in particular Guan Yu and Zhang Fei. However, saving the child lord was an incredibly brave deed no matter what anyone says. At the time, Liu Bei and all his forces were only concerned with escaping, as far as they were concerned the enemy were directly behind them. Considering all the baggage Liu Bei was traveling with, the enemy must have been very close and many cilvians died. There is hardly anyone who would have had the guts to turn back into what Zhao Yun believed to be hordes of enemies just to rescue Liu Bei's family. Zhao Yun knew that Liu Bei would not have blamed him as Liu Bei did not care half as much for his family as he did for one of his best generals. Guan Yu and Zhang Fei would not have bothered to undoubtedly risk their life to save a worthless sap. No other five tiger would have the courage to do what he did, knowing that there would not even be a significant reward at the end. What makes Zhao Yun the best, in my opinion, is that he never fought for himself or for glory. He always tried to do the right thing, whether there was a reward or not. This was the only reason he 'accomplished less'. I believe that Zhao Yun was a truly unique general both greatly skilled and humble in every way. For certain though, out of all the five tigers he was the one with the best personality traits.


Perhaps that is what is to be admired most about Zhao - his bravery and loyalty knew no bounds. He truly was Liu Bei's sword and shield.
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Unread postby cao cao#1 » Thu Jun 23, 2005 3:16 pm

elitemsh wrote:It is true Zhao Yun accomplished less for Shu than in particular Guan Yu and Zhang Fei. However, saving the child lord was an incredibly brave deed no matter what anyone says. At the time, Liu Bei and all his forces were only concerned with escaping, as far as they were concerned the enemy were directly behind them. Considering all the baggage Liu Bei was traveling with, the enemy must have been very close and many cilvians died. There is hardly anyone who would have had the guts to turn back into what Zhao Yun believed to be hordes of enemies just to rescue Liu Bei's family. Zhao Yun knew that Liu Bei would not have blamed him as Liu Bei did not care half as much for his family as he did for one of his best generals. Guan Yu and Zhang Fei would not have bothered to undoubtedly risk their life to save a worthless sap. No other five tiger would have the courage to do what he did, knowing that there would not even be a significant reward at the end. What makes Zhao Yun the best, in my opinion, is that he never fought for himself or for glory. He always tried to do the right thing, whether there was a reward or not. This was the only reason he 'accomplished less'. I believe that Zhao Yun was a truly unique general both greatly skilled and humble in every way. For certain though, out of all the five tigers he was the one with the best personality traits.


well the only good thing you hear about zhou yun is this,this is the only thing that comes up i cant think of anything zhou yun did that was of any importance .

And as for zhang fei and guan yu they had other more important matters to take care of .

guan >zhang fei > huang zhong > ma chao > zhou yun .
I never have a problem with taking a test. Its the 10 minutes before you enter the room that get to me you hear people talking about crap you have never heard about in your life.
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Unread postby barbarosso » Thu Jun 23, 2005 7:12 pm

Sima Hui wrote: What would you do then, barbarasso? :wink:

I will surrender but only till i get opportunity the Kill Lui and re enstate Zhang. OO thats a crime for a SHu lover like me to say, forgive me Uncle Lui
"The fine line before, arrogance and confitdence is bearly visible when we hold our heads up high" Me thats who !
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Unread postby Elitemsh » Fri Jun 24, 2005 9:54 am

Zhao Yun accomplished more than just saving the child lord. When Huang Zhong attacked Cao Cao's supplies, Zhao Yun rescued him and his suboardinate commander whom he could have left behind. He also showed his strategic skill when he faked the ambush and caused Cao Cao's troops to flee. Also when he was forced to retreat due to a far weaker army against Cao Zhen's much larger forces, he managed to avoid no losses to the army, whereas even Zhuge Liang suffered great losses and was greatly suprised of Zhao Yun's acheivement. There were hardly any generals who could have accomplished this, showing like Guan Yu and Zhang Fei, Zhao Yun was also one in a thousand.
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Unread postby simple » Fri Jun 24, 2005 4:51 pm

I also believed that Zhao Yun accomplised alot more than what some others think. It was never stated in his bio or anyone's bio that he was a full time bodyguard. So y keep saying that he was just a bodyguard? The fact was that even Zhang Fei and Guan Yu also been bodyguard quite a few times and no one comment that they were bodyguards.

If Cao Cao's advance troops were not at Chang Ban Po when Zhao Yun resuced Liu Bei's wife and son, y did Liu Bei run away, leaving his family aside? Y was Liu Bei's 2 daugthers caught? I don't think that there were 1m troops but highly possible abt 5k troops.
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Unread postby Dong Zhou » Fri Jun 24, 2005 5:22 pm

simple wrote:I also believed that Zhao Yun accomplised alot more than what some others think. It was never stated in his bio or anyone's bio that he was a full time bodyguard. So y keep saying that he was just a bodyguard? The fact was that even Zhang Fei and Guan Yu also been bodyguard quite a few times and no one comment that they were bodyguards.

If Cao Cao's advance troops were not at Chang Ban Po when Zhao Yun resuced Liu Bei's wife and son, y did Liu Bei run away, leaving his family aside? Y was Liu Bei's 2 daugthers caught? I don't think that there were 1m troops but highly possible abt 5k troops.


It is the impression that both bio's and novel gives I think. While he was a decent general, he seems to have gained much fame without leading troops so the guess is bodyguard.

I was talking history where Lady Mi lives. Liu Bei was hardly goingto turn around to find his family so he sends a trusty general who doesn't actully have anything else to do, Zhao Yun found the son and wife taking them back into Shu ranks. I'm guessing they got lost admist the confusion. One version I heard was that Yun simply waltzed into a Wei camp and picked up Liu Shan. I'm just saying not overly impressive
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Unread postby simple » Sat Jun 25, 2005 4:23 pm

There was no Lady Mi at Chang Ban Po, only Lady Gan. Just wondering y Luo Guan Zhong made Zhao Yun the almost perfect general in his novel instead of Guan Yu or Zhang Fei whom were ready choice? Or even chose Ma Chao or Huang Zhong? My guess is Zhao Yun might b more famous than we thought back than.
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Unread postby Elitemsh » Sat Jun 25, 2005 6:23 pm

I agree with this. Due to Luo Guanzhong exagerrating Zhao Yun, many people assume him to be just a bodyguard. People assume this because according to his biography there are not many instances where he led the position of a main general. However, Chen Shou concentrated mostly on Wei and thus Zhao Yun may have accomplised more than history says, Luo Guanzhong may also have believed this.
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Unread postby Shield of Rohan » Sun Jun 26, 2005 4:14 pm

Sometimes looking through Wei bios of characters that were involved in some way with Zhao Yun helps. It certainly does with Ma Chao - if we were to rely on his alone, all we would have is "Ma Chao lost to Cao Cao". And then I wouldn't like him much :wink: .
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