Why was Guan Yu respected?

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Why was Guan Yu respected?

Unread postby Elitemsh » Wed Jun 15, 2005 4:18 pm

This is something that has been bugging me. Apparently Guan Yu is worshipped as a god even today. My question is why? I know Guan Yu was a great general, but according to the novel and Chen Shou's biography, he was very arrogant and his arrogance led to not only his own death but eventually to the destruction of the Shu kingdom. Had he kept friendly relations with Wu (like he was advised to), he would have taken Fan castle and perhaps even used that momentum to take over Xu Chang. In my opinion Zhao Yun was better than Guan Yu, he was clearly just as skilled as Guan Yu and he was not arrogant at all and respected both his superiors and the soldiers under him. Please give me your opinions on this.
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Unread postby Dong Zhou » Wed Jun 15, 2005 4:45 pm

Becuase in the novel, every enemy general ended up fearing him. His end is supposed to be a tradagy and he lives on to kill. Plus politics meant he replaced the great Yue Fei of the Song Dynasty,

Mostly politics and perception. I think the best Shu general is Wang Ping myself(history) Zhang Fei(novel)
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Unread postby Mistelten » Wed Jun 15, 2005 7:11 pm

Guan Yu was not always arrogant to his underlings. Zhang Fei is the one who always gets classified as being brutal to soldiers, and respectful to nobility. Guan Yu was disrespectful to nobility, but was a great leader of men.
According to the novel, Guan also had a spy network that went even into Wei territory. I think his capabilities as a general are what his fans remember, and if he treated 'equals' poorly, then maybe they deserved it.

Anyways, I still think Zhang Fei is the better general. Wang Ping is good too. I'm glad someone else likes him as much as I do.
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Unread postby ZhangLiao85 » Wed Jun 15, 2005 7:34 pm

Guan Yu wasn't such a good general at all, he's feared simply becuase of his physical appearance. He's a giant of a man even to western standard, standing only a little short of 7 feet. A fully armoured giant on the battlefield would definitly strike fear to most of those common soldiers and generals.
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Unread postby AoA-71088 » Wed Jun 15, 2005 8:20 pm

If you ask me, you have to be pretty stupid to burn down supply depots, call a guy a dog, and NOT expect them to come after you :roll: I guess people just happen to leave out the fact that the only thing Guan Yu had was loyalty and strength. BTW I like Wang Ping too. He and Ma Dai are my favorite shu officers :)
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Unread postby Fei Yi » Wed Jun 15, 2005 8:55 pm

In the novel Guan Yu clearly is one of the better generals of Shu. Though not all of his accomplishments were for Liu Bei or Shu, he surely did some great things. I think he is mostly remembered for that. Historrically I still think he is one of the better generals Liu Bei had under his command. He served Liu Bei al long time and was one of the first choices when a general was required for anything.
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Unread postby Asellas » Wed Jun 15, 2005 9:05 pm

Guan Yu was nowhere near 7 foot tall. If anything, he was probably just over 6 foot as Lu Bu was probably only 6'3 or so.... heights were so exaggerated just to make the generals seem impressive. Although, Guan Yu might have had a faulty pituitary gland...

Anyway, I think the biggest reason as to why he was respected was because of his loyalty to Xuande. He'd have done anything for him, anything, so seeing a man sacrifice his own life and possible dreams for someone is commendable. He was probably up in the class off better generals who just had a good natural fighting ability also.
However, Guan Yu was not all bad. He was very noble, like returning the favour of being kept safe by Cao Cao, though Cao Cao wanted him in his ranks, so Guan Yu leaving was not his fault and Cao Cao was just greedy in my opinion....
He also treated lower class generals with some respect, moreso than Zhang Fei.

So perhaps not a good commander, but a good general - there is a difference.
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Unread postby Exar Kun » Wed Jun 15, 2005 9:24 pm

He was respected because of his prowess.He's probably the only general to receive such high respect from all three kingdoms.

Also, it's wrong to blame him for what happened in Jing.Jingzhou was Sun Quan breaking his treaty,plain and simple.
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Unread postby AoA-71088 » Wed Jun 15, 2005 10:01 pm

He was respected because of his prowess.He's probably the only general to receive such high respect from all three kingdoms.


So Sun Quan respected him even after he disrepected him constantly and had him executed? :shock:

Also, it's wrong to blame him for what happened in Jing.Jingzhou was Sun Quan breaking his treaty,plain and simple.


No... Shu wouldn't give Jing back, plain and simple not to mention Liu Bei's sworn brother wouldn't stop disrepecting him, refelcting on Liu Bei in a very negative way. Guan got what he deserved :lol:


Oh, BTW, Zhang Liao convinved Guan Yu to let Cao Cao go :wink:
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Unread postby Exar Kun » Thu Jun 16, 2005 2:17 am

AoA-71088 wrote:So Sun Quan respected him even after he disrepected him constantly and had him executed? :shock:


Enough to build him a tomb.

No... Shu wouldn't give Jing back, plain and simple not to mention Liu Bei's sworn brother wouldn't stop disrepecting him, refelcting on Liu Bei in a very negative way. Guan got what he deserved


...
...
oh no you didn't.
You must not know me. :twisted:

Shu never had to give anything 'back'.How about you show me where Wu was holding all of Jing.Go ahead I'll wait.No?Nothing?Can't find it?
Then I guess they never held Jing now did they?So I guess they can't get it 'back' now can they?

As for the second, not too well versed in diplomacy I see.If Sun Quan had a problem with Guan Yu then he needs to take it up with Liu Bei or Zhuge Liang. This is a governmental matter, not a personal one.He has no right to break his alliance with Liu Bei because of a personal problem with Guan Yu.
Of course, Sun Quan was stupid that way.
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