Your opinion of Ma Chao?

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Your opinion of Ma Chao?

Unread postby Zhang Liao17 » Tue Jun 18, 2002 7:04 pm

Before you begin please state whether your basing your arguements from SGYY or SGZ.

SGYY- Ma Chao was amazing, bold and strong. At only 17 he killed two of Li Jue's seasoned veterans, then he attacked Cao Cao and had great success. He dueled Xu Chu and Zhang Fei and was an important officer in the three kingdoms era.

SGZ-Seemed to attack Cao Cao without reason. He was scared away by Xu Chu and failed on his attack after a falling out with Han Sui.
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Unread postby James » Tue Jun 18, 2002 9:24 pm

I like the SGYY Ma Chao very much, but the historical Ma Chao was pretty brutal and self-serving, as far as I see things.
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Unread postby Lion's Mane » Tue Jun 18, 2002 9:28 pm

Kongming beat me to my statement, but yeah, in SGYY, Ma Chao is billed as an amazing hero. And then you look at the historical facts, whereas he was a brutal, jealous, rather greedy chap. He was too given to vengeance when he attacked Cao Cao. Always a bad thing going into battle.
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Unread postby James » Tue Jun 18, 2002 9:35 pm

Zhang Wenyuan wrote:Kongming beat me to my statement, but yeah, in SGYY, Ma Chao is billed as an amazing hero. And then you look at the historical facts, whereas he was a brutal, jealous, rather greedy chap. He was too given to vengeance when he attacked Cao Cao. Always a bad thing going into battle.

Historically he didn't even attack Cao Cao out of vengeance for his father. Ma Teng was alive and well and in Cao Cao's service. Cao Cao had him executed for Ma Chao's actions.
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Unread postby Lion's Mane » Tue Jun 18, 2002 9:38 pm

Err, d'oops. I knew that too, jes' got the ordering backwards.

*slaps forehead*
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Unread postby Dennis » Tue Jun 18, 2002 10:04 pm

SGYY: Ma Chao secured Jiameng, dueled Zhang Fei. Tricked into ostracizing Han Sui, leaves Pang De with Zhang Lu while he was ill.
Rating: 6/10 on the coolness scale.

SGZ: Self-serving, scared of Xu Zhu, literally ran away crying, never dueled Zhang Fei, attacked Cao Cao getting his father murdered. Called Liu Xuande, 'Bei' out of disrespect, still deserted Pang De with Zhang Lu. On a good note, forced the surrender of Liu Zhang.
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Unread postby Starscream » Thu Jun 20, 2002 4:41 am

SGYY: He is the most tragic hero of the story, having his entire family killed, except for Ma Dai. He was then given a high post by Liu Bei and had to guard the borders to his death. He's got no life from the beginnning to the end...

SGZ: I don't understand this guy. What's with him to attack Cao Cao when his father was serving the court in the capital?? Certainly he's got problems there when he attacked Cao Cao w/o considering about his father's safety. He's a big opportunist and even wanted Yizhou for himself and he's a traitor for leading the Qiangs to attack the lands of China.
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Unread postby Taishi Guang » Thu Jun 20, 2002 2:50 pm

SGZ: He was an ambitious, good for nothing son who got his father killed by attacking Cao Cao. He then took his father's Title. He was also a coward who fled from battle and abandoned his allies (Pang De, Han Sui). SGYY does him way too much credit. He is a bad man :evil: .
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Unread postby Zhao Zilong » Sat Aug 03, 2002 7:07 pm

Taishi Guang wrote:SGZ: He was an ambitious, good for nothing son who got his father killed by attacking Cao Cao. He then took his father's Title. He was also a coward who fled from battle and abandoned his allies (Pang De, Han Sui). SGYY does him way too much credit. He is a bad man :evil: .


Ma Chao didnt abandon Pang De, and Han Sui defected to Cao Cao's side.
I dont understand where you find your information.

http://kongming.net/novel/sgz/machao.php

Why not read Ma Chao's SGZ bio? I've read it and I dont see anywhere of what people say about him.
"Do not bar the gates," said Zhao Zilong. "Have you never heard of my exploit at Dangyang, when I laughed at Cao Cao's many legions? Now that I have an army at my back and generals to help, what is there to fear?"
~SGYY, Chapter 71, Paragraph 119
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Unread postby Han Xin » Sun Aug 04, 2002 12:30 am

Zhao Zilong wrote:Ma Chao didnt abandon Pang De, and Han Sui defected to Cao Cao's side.
I dont understand where you find your information.

http://kongming.net/novel/sgz/machao.php

Why not read Ma Chao's SGZ bio? I've read it and I dont see anywhere of what people say about him.


That why I cursed people for calling Chen Shou anti-Shu. If you want to read about the real dirts on Shu's officers you have to look elsewhere in SGZ...
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