Zhao Yun!

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Do you Agree

Yes
14
48%
No
15
52%
 
Total votes : 29

Unread postby Lafeel » Thu Jun 16, 2005 7:01 pm

Ah, hindsight, the blessing of having a few centuries pass between the event and the analysis to help you know what the results was. Personally I think he did the right thing, as, after all, he had no way of knowing how Liu Chan would turn out.
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Re: Zhao Yun!

Unread postby Striga » Fri Dec 23, 2011 10:13 pm

Regardless of the hindsight, Liu Shan really didn’t do much, and let the capable officers such as Kongming, Jiang Wan and Fei Yi rule. However, after they died, there wasn’t any replacements, so regardless, Liu Shan had nothing to do with Shu’s fall.
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Re: Zhao Yun!

Unread postby Dong Zhou » Sat Dec 24, 2011 7:21 am

Yes he did. It was Liu Shan that allowed Huang Hao and Chen Zhi's corrupt influence, who ignored the advice of able men like Qiao Zhou, who gave and kept Jiang Wei in full command. Liu Shan was neglectful and lazy, he allowed Shu to fall apart by his refusal to do anything about the corruption or the Cic.
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Re: Zhao Yun!

Unread postby Striga » Sat Dec 24, 2011 4:58 pm

Isn't that more of how he did nothing, and allowed Shu to crumble around him? That was the general idea I've gotten, as he spent his life playing back in the capital, while the officials took over.
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Re: Zhao Yun!

Unread postby Dong Zhou » Sat Dec 24, 2011 8:31 pm

Liu Shan did little is true. That he had nothing to do with Shu's collapse is, in my opinion, not true. This line is what I was arguing against However, after they died, there wasn’t any replacements, so regardless, Liu Shan had nothing to do with Shu’s fall..

Liu Shan took a hands off policy as a general rule so yes, he did nothing while Shu fell apart.
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Re: Zhao Yun!

Unread postby Striga » Sun Dec 25, 2011 3:23 pm

Well, in a way, the hands off policy prevented them from hiring new replacements, but if he had taken a more hands on approach, the land of Shu may have fallen faster. Zhao Yun rescuing Liu Shan didn't harm Shu. It just didn't do anything, other than maybe that point in which he had to grab him back from SSX.
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Re: Zhao Yun!

Unread postby Dong Zhou » Mon Dec 26, 2011 7:20 pm

With Liu Shan, I think his presence probably ensured Shu's survival after Liu Bei's death. No regencies, a stable figure on the throne and so on but during the last ten years or so, he helped doom it by his inaction.
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Re: Zhao Yun!

Unread postby Human5 » Mon Dec 26, 2011 8:12 pm

There are too many topics about Zhao Yun in this forum.
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Re: Zhao Yun!

Unread postby Striga » Tue Dec 27, 2011 12:30 am

No, I just keep restarting old ones. There are a lot of threads on each character, and as new people come in, they target a select few. Me, Zhao Yun, Wu and anti-Guan Yu. Shen Ai, Cao Pi, and Wei. :P
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Re: Zhao Yun!

Unread postby Zhao Yun '87 » Tue Dec 27, 2011 6:44 am

Inaction is an action to be responsible for. Liu Shan, in my opinion, is largely responsible for the fall of Shu. Having someone else instead of him on could have been worse, but the chances of that are small. It's like if you roll a 1-hundred sided die. If you get a 3 and roll again you could get lower, but the chances are very low.
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