Zhao Yun!

Join the Romance of the Three Kingdoms discussion with our resident Scholars. Topics relating to the novel and history are both welcome. Don't forget to check the Forum Rules before posting.
Kongming’s Archives: Romance of the Three Kingdoms
Three Kingdoms Officer Biographies
Three Kingdoms Officer Encyclopedia
Scholars of Shen Zhou Search Tool

Do you Agree

Yes
15
48%
No
16
52%
 
Total votes : 31

Unread postby Liu Yuante » Mon Apr 18, 2005 2:01 am

I don't know about the 'what if' portions of the question, but I do want to comment that Shu-Han didn't surrender "early on" in Liu Shan's reign. Shan had been on the throne for over thirty years, which, if you compare to the reign-years of the other Han emperors, especially those of Latter Han, was actually quite a long time.

Adrian
User avatar
Liu Yuante
绯红王
 
Posts: 2682
Joined: Mon Apr 12, 2004 12:20 am
Location: Central Pennsylvania

Unread postby MarvelousLingTong!!!!!! » Mon Apr 18, 2005 2:06 am

Dalton Imperial wrote:I think it's always interesting to think about historical "what if's" and I think it's possible that things would have worked out differently without Liu Shan. On the other hand, maybe Liu Bei would have fallen into a depression and Shu would have lost even earlier. Still, Liu Shan wasn't a very good ruler.


I doubt he would have fallen into a depression as he threw Liu Shan on the ground, but that might not be historical. I don't like Zhao Yun but he was doing his duty and as many have said he can't see the future.
"Nooooooooo hot sexy wife!!!" - Martin Schean
User avatar
MarvelousLingTong!!!!!!
Scholar of Shen Zhou
 
Posts: 1344
Joined: Wed Mar 09, 2005 4:00 am
Location: Missouri

Unread postby LiuBeiwasGreat » Mon Apr 18, 2005 4:42 am

If Zhao Yun didn't save Liu Chan then Chan would have either died or gotten lost in the confusion. Cao Cao wouldn't take him hostage bucause he wouldn't find him. There were 100,000 civilians there what are the chances that Cao Cao would find Liu Chan? It is not like they had flags all around him announcing that this was Liu Bei's son. Lady Gan died there and Liu Chan would have too. All that this would do is Liu Bei's next son would take over after Liu Bei died. No telling if that child would be better or worse then Liu Chan. Liu Feng still would have been killed since he betrayed his own side by allowing a senior general to die without even trying to assist him even though he was ordered to.
LiuBeiwasGreat
Scholar of Shen Zhou
 
Posts: 2623
Joined: Mon Mar 22, 2004 4:13 pm
Location: Raleigh, NC

Unread postby Kong Wen » Mon Apr 18, 2005 4:45 am

LiuBeiwasGreat wrote:All that this would do is Liu Bei's next son would take over after Liu Bei died.

And speaking of this scenario, I don't think SGZ really gives us much specific information on Liu Yong or Liu Li--does anyone with more reliable knowledge want to correct me? I think the bits about Liu Bei's other sons are in Empresses and Consorts, and I don't recall reading much about them there.
"We spread the time as we can, but in the end the world takes it all back."
— Roland Deschain, Wolves of the Calla
User avatar
Kong Wen
The Bronze Age of SoSZ
The Bronze Age of SoSZ
 
Posts: 11857
Joined: Tue Jul 22, 2003 7:38 pm
Location: Canada

Unread postby The Mighty Lu Bu » Wed Apr 20, 2005 8:03 pm

ok i understand i agree with you guys now, i juss wanted to what peoples replys were. on the situation
The Mighty Lu Bu
Initiate
 
Posts: 58
Joined: Sun Jul 11, 2004 7:18 am

Unread postby jonathanyu » Sat Apr 23, 2005 2:34 am

Zhao Yun did his job, save the heir apparent. I'd say its Liu Bei's fault!!!!!!!!!!! He threw Liu Shan down when he was a baby which probably made him kind of stupid.
jonathanyu
Assistant
 
Posts: 130
Joined: Thu Mar 24, 2005 2:05 am
Location: New Jersey

Unread postby barbarosso » Sun Apr 24, 2005 8:57 pm

He did his duty and that makes him a hero in my books. Plus that was Lui's flaw not Zhao's
"The fine line before, arrogance and confitdence is bearly visible when we hold our heads up high" Me thats who !
User avatar
barbarosso
Scholar of Shen Zhou
 
Posts: 1694
Joined: Sun Sep 19, 2004 6:30 pm
Location: Tir Na Nog

Unread postby Zhao Zilong » Thu Jun 16, 2005 5:28 pm

Don't hate on Zhao Yun for doing his duty. Hate Liu Chan for being mediocre and unable to continue the legacy that Liu Bei, Pang Tong, and the Five Tiger Generals established for Shu.
"Do not bar the gates," said Zhao Zilong. "Have you never heard of my exploit at Dangyang, when I laughed at Cao Cao's many legions? Now that I have an army at my back and generals to help, what is there to fear?"
~SGYY, Chapter 71, Paragraph 119
User avatar
Zhao Zilong
Master
 
Posts: 248
Joined: Sat Aug 03, 2002 12:44 am
Location: Chengdu

Unread postby Dong Zhou » Thu Jun 16, 2005 5:52 pm

Zhao Zilong wrote:Don't hate on Zhao Yun for doing his duty. Hate Liu Chan for being mediocre and unable to continue the legacy that Liu Bei, Pang Tong, and the Five Tiger Generals established for Shu.


Well medicore is a decent description but I go for lazy myself regarding Shan but excellent point otherwise
“You, are a rebellious son who abandoned his father. You are a cruel brigand who murdered his lord. How can Heaven and Earth put up with you for long? And unless you die soon, how can you face the sight of men?”
User avatar
Dong Zhou
A-Dou
A-Dou
 
Posts: 16065
Joined: Sun Apr 10, 2005 12:32 pm
Location: "Now we must die. May Your Majesty maintain yourself"

Re: Zhao Yun!

Unread postby barbarosso » Thu Jun 16, 2005 5:55 pm

The Mighty Lu Bu wrote:here y do people think zhao yun was a hero for saving liu chan at chang ban
Because at the time he didn't know he would be a poop ruler. The very fact that he did his duty and went back to get in, is definately worth the title of hero. that is bloody amazing hacking his way through hundreds of soliders for a sinlge bady. he definately desevres the title of hero!

Take into account that Lui's other kiddies could have been just as bad or even worse at rulering that lui shan. :x
"The fine line before, arrogance and confitdence is bearly visible when we hold our heads up high" Me thats who !
User avatar
barbarosso
Scholar of Shen Zhou
 
Posts: 1694
Joined: Sun Sep 19, 2004 6:30 pm
Location: Tir Na Nog

PreviousNext

Return to Sanguo Yanyi Symposium

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 5 guests

Copyright © 2002–2008 Kongming’s Archives. All Rights Reserved