Zhao Yun!

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Total votes : 27

Zhao Yun!

Unread postby The Mighty Lu Bu » Sun Apr 17, 2005 6:26 am

here sumthin to think about,


y do people think zhao yun was a hero for saving liu chan at chang ban , think about this if he would have never saved the "prince" liu chan i bet shu would have never surrenderd so early under the rule of chan,and when liu bei would have died you know without liu chan alive zhuge liang would have surely stepped up as heir of shu and Shu would have been around longer or even conquer wei and wu . so i kinda look at zhao yun as the one who made the mistake that led to shu's downfall
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Unread postby Dong Zhou » Sun Apr 17, 2005 9:55 am

Uh no... what was he supposed to do? Let Liu Shan be used as a hostage by Cao Cao? He didnhis duty as a bodyguard

Also who would Kongming take the throne? He had sevral Liu's who can take the throne instead. That and your underestimate Liu Shan, the king replacing him could be worse.

Also what was Liu Shan supposed to do once Deng Ai defeated a Shu army led by Zhuge Dan? Cheng Du lacked defences and Jiang Wei was stuck against Zhong Hui and couldn't come to the rescue?
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Unread postby Emperor Zhuge Liang » Sun Apr 17, 2005 10:00 am

Zhao Yun was just doing his duty. He had no way of knowing events that would happen 50/60 years in the future. And if Liu Shan died Kongming would never take the throne as Liu bei had other sons. Just getting rid of Liu Shan wouldn't miraculously make Shu extremly powerful. Even without him Shu lacked the capabliity to take over the other kingdoms.
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Unread postby Liu Pi » Sun Apr 17, 2005 10:55 am

Perhaps if Liu Shan had been captured at Chang Ban then maybe Liu bei wouldn'thave had Liu Feng executed when he refused to send troops to Guan Yu.
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Unread postby MandateOfHeaven » Sun Apr 17, 2005 2:17 pm

But it is the principle that matters. Zhou Yun was just doing his duty, as far as he knew then Liu Chan would have grown up to a powerful king. At that moment Liu Shan, when he was being rescued, was just a defenceless baby and son to liu bei.
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Unread postby Elven Fury » Sun Apr 17, 2005 3:07 pm

I think that no one coudl see the future... Zhao Yun did his duty, did it the best he could, and did it the best of anyone... If he had knwn the future and what it held, then he wouldnt have saved Liu Chan im sure...
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Unread postby Emperor Zhuge Liang » Sun Apr 17, 2005 3:31 pm

Liu Pi wrote:Perhaps if Liu Shan had been captured at Chang Ban then maybe Liu bei wouldn'thave had Liu Feng executed when he refused to send troops to Guan Yu.


He pobably would have killed Liu Feng anyway. Liu Bei was in a blind rage over Guan Yu's death and wouldn't really be thinking about the succession picture at that point.
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Unread postby gunnar_sabrefang » Mon Apr 18, 2005 12:02 am

Elven Fury wrote:I think that no one coudl see the future... Zhao Yun did his duty, did it the best he could, and did it the best of anyone... If he had knwn the future and what it held, then he wouldnt have saved Liu Chan im sure...


Absoulty correct you can't judge Zhao Yun on event in the future that he wouldn't know. Liu Bei was Liu Chan's father, Chan's education and upbringing was his father's responsibility not Zhao Yun's
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Unread postby Kong Wen » Mon Apr 18, 2005 12:12 am

Zhuge Liang would never have "stepped up" to rule Shu. He was a firm believer in the importance of bloodlines, which is why he was uncomfortable with Liu Feng's position as eldest and adopted son.
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Unread postby Dalton Imperial » Mon Apr 18, 2005 1:59 am

I think it's always interesting to think about historical "what if's" and I think it's possible that things would have worked out differently without Liu Shan. On the other hand, maybe Liu Bei would have fallen into a depression and Shu would have lost even earlier. Still, Liu Shan wasn't a very good ruler.
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