Do you think Cao Cao's "evil" or "bad"?

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Do you think Cao Cao's "evil" or "bad"?

yes
31
26%
no
89
74%
 
Total votes : 120

Do you think Cao Cao's "evil" or "bad"?

Unread postby Sima Yi of Jin » Wed Apr 13, 2005 3:52 pm

Personally, I don't think he's that bad of a guy. In the novel, he just seems really evil because he's the antagonist (I'm not saying he was a virtuous guy by any means, but I just don't think he was evil.) But still, he greatly respected both Liu Bei and Guan Yu, and even lamented Guan Yu's death after Sun Quan (out of the 3 rulers, I definitely dislike Sun Quan the most :P) had him executed. He never wanted to fight Liu Bei either, but when it becomes obvious that someone's in the way of your goal, what can you do? :P He also seemed pretty loyal to the Han. Playing Guan Yu's Musou Mode in DW5 really makes Cao Cao seem like a much better person (more so than even Cao Cao's own Musou ;))
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Unread postby BlueDragon » Wed Apr 13, 2005 3:57 pm

The novel is heavily Shu biased so in that Cao Cao is indeed evil but I think he's portrayed pretty neutrally in the games. I can't see the games being biased to Shu (of course, if they were I'd have to kill myself :lol:)
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Unread postby EVERYTHING » Wed Apr 13, 2005 4:16 pm

He did many bad things, but I would call him a ruler someone who has to do things to maintian control. Overall though, he's not good but definetly not evil.
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Unread postby The Zibbuto » Wed Apr 13, 2005 5:50 pm

Hey, in his soul Cao Cao is a peaceful and lovin' guy... in his suol, of course. He may do bad things, but he's not bad. Also Liu Bei and Sun Jian do the same things!
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Unread postby Sima Yi of Jin » Wed Apr 13, 2005 6:07 pm

Yeah, I agree. Cao Cao does bad things because he has to as a leader.

Sun Jian seemed okay. He did technically "steal" the imperial seal, but he did find it abandoned in Luo Yang. It's not like he intentionally stormed the palace and killed the guards just to steal it or anything. He thought it was a sign from the heavens, too, so it's understandable why he'd keep it. He died too early for me to really judge him though. Sun Quan on the other hand, I really despise.

I'd still say Liu Bei's much more virtuous than Cao Cao, but he's not completely pure either. He was the one who initiated the conflict between himself and Cao Cao. At the beginning (up until Chi Bi, I think), Cao Cao greatly respected Liu Bei and wanted to work together with him. But then again, Liu Bei only separated himself from Cao Cao because he realized that Cao Cao wasn't such a good guy and wouldn't be able to create the land of virtue he dreamed of. As a ruler in general, Liu Bei wasn't really great, though. I think it was his advisors (mainly Zhuge Liang) that kept Shu strong. I hate to say it, but during war, I think one has to be cold-hearted and objective sometimes.

Cao Cao wasn't such a nice guy, but he was a very firm and good leader. Liu Bei was a very nice guy, but he was only an average leader, nothing remarkable. I'd say Sun Quan was about an average a leader as Liu Bei, as his father and brother already did a lot of the work for him, and he did just as many bad things as Cao Cao did, which is why I don't like him.
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Unread postby Kong Wen » Wed Apr 13, 2005 8:56 pm

Since this thread is based on the game, and not the novel (or else it would have been posted in one of the already existing novel threads in SGYYS), I will have to say that yes, Cao Cao is bad. The games clearly paint him as the villain, even in story modes that are told from the perspective of Wei characters! Part of the reason for this is to give players the chance to play as "good guys" or "bad guys", which is admittedly pretty fun.

That said, there are always moments when the player is meant to sympathize with the villain (i.e. Cao Cao), especially since he's such a great character.
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Unread postby EVERYTHING » Wed Apr 13, 2005 9:18 pm

I don't know, he's protraited as an evil person but really doesn't do many evil things. He's more ambitous then anything else.
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Unread postby Guan Yunchang » Wed Apr 13, 2005 9:33 pm

It's enough to say that he was a villian. Maybe not evil, but at least an antagonist.

What gets me is that in DW5 it says that Cao Pi was more cunning and less cruel than his father, but I think it was the other way around.
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Unread postby Shield of Rohan » Wed Apr 13, 2005 9:36 pm

I disagree that he is always portayed as evil from the game perspective. Sure, he had his bad ways, especially regarding his plotting from the Han court, but really seems to be just a darker version of the hero Liu Bei. Men who held and respected the same lofty goals and principles, really.

Sun Quan, now there is pure evil. A menace if there ever was one :wink: .
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Unread postby Devilrai » Wed Apr 13, 2005 9:59 pm

Cao Cao is both good and bad, he does what is needed to rule the land and if that requires him to be evil so be it. But it really depends on you, some Wei-ists think that his actions are good but some Shu-ists and Wu-ists thinks he is bad, so it really depends.

Gamewise he is not that bad as protrayed in the novel but I still see him as a good guy overall.
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