Would it be better if Wei Yan was one of the Five Tigers?

[WeiYan of Shu 77]

I have read a lot of posts and their seems to be a lot of debate about Ma Chao not doing much for Shu, and that Wei Yan would have better filled his place. I think this is true but what do yall think???

[ShuWeiYan]

I have to say no because Ma Chao had proven his worthiness by tying with Zhang Fei. Even though Wei Yan has what it takes to be a 5 tiger, but Ma Chao was better off being the last tiger because he tied with Zhang Fei and Liu Bei saw the duel himself. But I still had wished that Wei Yan was a 5 tiger.

[Huang Bob]

If it were the 6 Tigers, Wei Yan would have the last position.

[Sean]

Well...I voted "No,"...and I forgot why. I think it was about Wei Yan not being a Tiger General when Huang Zhong did...

But if Wei Yan was a Tiger General, then, technically, you're saying that most generals in Shu, such as Liao Hua, Ma Su, and Yan Yan (along with Huang Zhong).

[Jimayo]

If it were the 6 Tigers, Wei Yan would have the last position.

Maybe, maybe not, but he surely accomplisehed far more for shu than Ma Chao did.

[Kong Wen]

Poor Ma Chao!

Anyway, Wei Yan did more for Shu than Ma Chao did, but that doesn't mean he should be one of the Tiger Generals just because of that. I don't think Wei Yan deserved a place among the five tigers. It was a whole different kind of idea.

[Huang Bob]

If it were the 6 Tigers, Wei Yan would have the last position.

Maybe, maybe not, but he surely accomplisehed far more for shu than Ma Chao did.

You can see my stance on that in the Ma Chao thread. To sum it up, it's not about what they did for Shu.

[Jimayo]

You can see my stance on that in the Ma Chao thread. To sum it up, it's not about what they did for Shu.

Really? Well seems to me an unearned position is no position at all. Wei Yan deserves the position far more than Ma Chao does.

[Kong Wen]

Really? Well seems to me an unearned position is no position at all. Wei Yan deserves the position far more than Ma Chao does.

I don't know, that depends on what one has to do to deserve this particular position. We can't just generalize accomplishments. There are certain criteria for "deserving" every position. The position held by the five tiger generals is a decorative position, not a merit-based one. All one has to do to deserve the position is to be one of Liu Bei's big-name fame generals. Fulfill those requirements, and you deserve to be a five tiger general. It's different for positions that require some kind of track record.

That doesn't mean it's an unearned position, it just means it's a position that was earned in a different way.

[LiuBeiwasGreat]

You can see my stance on that in the Ma Chao thread. To sum it up, it's not about what they did for Shu.

Really? Well seems to me an unearned position is no position at all. Wei Yan deserves the position far more than Ma Chao does.

No he doesn't. For the simple reason as to when the enemy hears about the 5 tiger generals they will know about the explots of Zhang Fei, of Guan Yu, of Zhao Yun of Huang Zhong and of Wei Yan? who is he again? He wasn't famous enough at that time. Huang Zhong got that position because he lead the attack that got Xiahou Yuan killed. No one outside of Liu Bei's forces knew who Wei Yan was so it would make little sense to make him a tiger general. Most of Wei Yan's biggest victories were during the northern campaigns where he won several victories.