Kong Ming and Liu Bei's Faith

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Kong Ming and Liu Bei's Faith

Unread postby EmperorWei » Tue Mar 01, 2005 7:16 am

Did Liu Bei really deserve Kong Ming's talents? Although I have no opinions at this point,what would be yours?
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Unread postby Stedfel » Tue Mar 01, 2005 7:26 am

Though I have a dislike of Shu (there, I said it), I do believe that Liu Bei deserved Zhuge Liang. Each kingdom had it's main strategist for different times, and for most of the era, it was Zhuge Liang for Shu. Now, I am not looking at this through a historical perspective, but a novel one. Historically, I have no real opinion.

Now, in the novel, it becomes fairly obvious that without Zhuge, Shu forces would have died a quick, painful death early on, and without Shu, well, the era would have ended early on, and thus we would not be very interested in this era. That's the main reason I think Liu Bei deserves Zhuge, if only for my own entertainment.
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Unread postby EmperorWei » Mon Mar 07, 2005 1:20 am

:? Liu Bei was using Kong Ming's talents quite skillfully,until after he became King of Shu. But in my opinion,before the Battle of Yiling,Liu Bei's decisions mustve insulted Kong Ming's cunning and cleverness.
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Unread postby man4422 » Tue Mar 08, 2005 2:12 pm

Perhaps Kong ming should impart some of his skills to Liu Bei when he rule the teritory, so he can gain some experience,and would not always look for him for advice, and would not makes the defeat in Yiling.

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Unread postby Cao Moo » Tue Mar 08, 2005 4:37 pm

Yeah Kongming was non to please when he saw Liu Bie Camp deployment drawn out for him, going so far as to sayywhoever recommneded this formation should be killed. To his surprise it was Liu Bie himself that did socome up with the ill concieved plan. How did Liu bie get to be called a crafty Owl anyway?

Then again cao cao was susposed to be a strategic genius and did many stupid things as well.
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Unread postby Jaing_Wei12 » Fri Mar 11, 2005 9:24 pm

Liu for sure derserved Kong Ming. If not only to make thing even( Cao had so many stratigests) but liu bei had made the 3 visits and pretty much relied on him untill the loss of his brothers when he went off his rocker in my opinion.
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Unread postby Zhang Shu » Sat Mar 12, 2005 10:04 pm

Liu Bei does deserve Kongming for his three visits to the thatched cottage. But i think if kongming had served Cao Cao, there would be no chibi and Cao would have conquered all of china.

I believe Liu Xuande depended too heavily on Kongming, unlike Cao cao who was very able himself.
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Unread postby Wo Long » Sat Mar 12, 2005 10:30 pm

I think Kongming should've gotten all of Shu's generals to rebel against Xuande and then went and joined Wei. I'm a Shuist only for it's generals. Otherwise, I pretty much hate Liu Bei. He's dumb when it comes to common sense. Zhuge Liang and Sima Yi teamed up with all of Shu's mighty generals and Wei's mighty generals would have obliterated Sun Quan's army with ease and would've conquered China in half the time it took Jin to. Well...so the didn't really "conquer" but you know what I mean.
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Unread postby LiuBeiwasGreat » Mon Mar 14, 2005 4:38 pm

Liu Bei deserved Zhuge Liang well because he went out of his way to get him. He humbled himself to visit him 3 times (i believe this is historical because it is mentioned in Zhuge Liang's bio). However Zhuge Liang's main ability is in domestic matters and political matters. Liu Bei was much better then Zhuge Liang when it came to leading armies and with judging people. They complimented eacher in ability, Liu Bei could lead the armies while Zhuge Liang could watch over the homefront.
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Unread postby Ma Chao of Xi Liang » Tue Apr 12, 2005 1:49 pm

I think Liu Bei deserved Zhuge Liang because Zhuge Liang thought that Liu Bei was the one who could save the land from chaos so Kongming established
the Three Kingdoms Strategy.
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