What if it was Sun Ce who served Zhou Yu? (Historical/novel)

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What if it was Sun Ce who served Zhou Yu? (Historical/novel)

Unread postby Sun Gongli » Tue Feb 15, 2005 1:09 am

When Yuan Shu dispatched Sun Ce to fight Liu Yao, Zhou Yu was a separate command. What if, for some reason, Zhou Yu had been Sun Ce's commanding officer for the Wu campaigns? Would they have turned out differently? Would Zhou Yu have declared independence from Yuan Shu, or would he remain with him? Or would be possibly step down in favor of Sun Ce, thus nullifying the whole scenario?

Zhou Yu was from a much more influential family than Sun Ce's. Wasn't Zhou Yu's father Prefect of Luo Yang at one point?
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Unread postby Big J » Tue Feb 15, 2005 1:23 am

yes, things would have turned out differently, for sure. but i am not sure it would happen in the 1st place. sun ce is sun jians son, afterall. if anything, sun ce would have lived longer. he would not have gone off so much, he would have had to obey orders. so, he would not have always been in so much danger
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Unread postby Sun Gongli » Tue Feb 15, 2005 3:23 am

Zhou Yu was from a very influential family that had served the Han for many generations. Sun Jian, on the other hand, was the first person in his family to get any post at all. At the time, Zhou Yu's prestige far outweighed the Sun clan's, even at his young age, IMO.
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Unread postby Emperor Sun Quan » Tue Feb 15, 2005 11:57 am

Heh that's actually pretty interesting becasue I think Zhou Yu had what it took to be a great ruler and with a general of Sun Ce's caliber under him he could of gone places, high places.
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Unread postby Gabriel » Tue Feb 15, 2005 5:17 pm

Zhou Yu was smart I admit but he did not have the leadership abilities Sun Ce had. Zhou Yu could probably take out Yan Baihu and Wang Lang and Liu Yao but he would most likely be defeated when it came to fighting bigger stronger opponents.
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Unread postby Sun Gongli » Tue Feb 15, 2005 6:13 pm

I disagree. It was Zhou Yu who led the army at Chi Bi, not Sun Quan. Though Sun Quan was capable, I believe Zhou Yu was his superior in many aspects, including leadership.
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Unread postby Gabriel » Tue Feb 15, 2005 6:20 pm

It was Zhou Yu who was in charge of the army, but what exactly did he do? It was Huang Gai who came up with the defection ploy, and Pang Tong who thought of having Cao Cao chain his ships together, and Zhuge Liang who thought of using fire. The only thing I can think of Zhou Yu doing is tricking Jiang Gan, that's pretty much it.
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Unread postby Big J » Tue Feb 15, 2005 7:14 pm

Liang Shuo wrote:It was Zhou Yu who was in charge of the army, but what exactly did he do? It was Huang Gai who came up with the defection ploy, and Pang Tong who thought of having Cao Cao chain his ships together, and Zhuge Liang who thought of using fire. The only thing I can think of Zhou Yu doing is tricking Jiang Gan, that's pretty much it.


Wasnt it Zhou Yu who contacted Zhuge Liang? I may be wrong...
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Unread postby Fei Yi » Tue Feb 15, 2005 7:17 pm

Are we talking novelwise or historically...? Novelwise I agree with Liang Shuo. If we're talking historically however, i think Zhuge's involvement is much less. Zhou You led the attack at Chi Bi wich ment he coördinated militairy movements and prepared the entire attack. True the suggestion for the plot came from Huang Gai, still it was Zhou Yu who leaded the attack.
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Unread postby Sun Gongli » Tue Feb 15, 2005 7:51 pm

Historically, Zhou Yu wasn't even a subordinate of Sun Ce's to begin with until Sun Ce split with Yuan Shu. He led his own campaigns, often in support of Sun Ce, but he was not always commanded by Sun Ce.

And Zhou Yu LEADING the army at Chi Bi is still enough to make Zhou Yu a leader. Don't make this a Zhou Yu vs. Zhuge Liang or Strategist thread.
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