Zhong Hui and Deng Ai

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Zhong Hui and Deng Ai

Unread postby Lord Sun Ce » Sat Nov 20, 2004 12:44 am

What if Zhong Hui and Deng Ai, after the conquest of Shu, immediatly defected and joined Wu? Would this discourage The Sima family to take over Wei and attack Wu? Or would the two generals be unsuccessful, being in charge of an inferior Wu army?
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Unread postby PrimeMinister Bu Zhi » Sat Nov 20, 2004 12:58 am

Actually, they might just do that.

1) Zhong Hui wanted to rebel. If he survived the rebellion, he may have gone to Wu.
2) Deng Ai was going to be killed. If he knew ahead, he may have defected to Wu.

Well, then Wu would have Yi province. Or parts of it.
Deng Ai and Lu Kang where the greatest generals alive at the time, both serving Wu is not gonna look good for whoever is in charge of the north.
But I still think that they would not win.
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Unread postby Man Chong » Sat Nov 20, 2004 1:42 am

Well, you still have to remember Jiang Wei who tried to restore Liu Shan to the throne...He could be a factor...
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Unread postby PrimeMinister Bu Zhi » Sat Nov 20, 2004 2:00 am

Possibly, he may defect to Wu as well as the other Shu generals.
Lu Xun- "After much observation of how Liu Bei had been leading troops in his career, I see that he had more failures than success; hence, he is not much of a threat."
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Re: Zhong Hui and Deng Ai

Unread postby Iain » Sat Nov 20, 2004 2:24 am

Lord Sun Ce wrote:What if Zhong Hui and Deng Ai, after the conquest of Shu, immediatly defected and joined Wu? Would this discourage The Sima family to take over Wei and attack Wu? Or would the two generals be unsuccessful, being in charge of an inferior Wu army?
Depends if those two managed to take their rather large armys with them to Wu as well, if they had loyal troops that could become quite a headache to Sima Zhao. The idea is quite interesting since Zhong Hui even thinks of starting his own kingdom via rebellion.
ROTK wrote:"This decides me," replied Zhong Hui. "Success, and the empire is mine; failure, and I go west into Shu to be another Liu Bei, but without his mistakes."
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Unread postby Lord Sun Ce » Sat Nov 20, 2004 5:20 am

akroma, that quote is exactly what i was basing that on :)
Also consider Liu Chan's deteriorating opinion of Jiang Wei, with Huang Hao whispering every fake rumor that comes to his head, What If.......
Jiang Wei joined Wu as well. Now you will say that is impossible, and it is in one way. Jiang Wei would never BETRAY Shu, but if he were exiled, i think he would hate Wei more than Shu and Join Wu. So now you have Lu Kang, Zhong Hui, Deng Ai, and Jiang Wei in Wu. If they could co-operate, wow Shu is completely Done and it would be north vs south Wu vs Wei im rambling i know just a scenario :)
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Unread postby Six_and_Up » Sat Nov 20, 2004 11:49 am

I do not see Jiang Wei turning to Wu. This is one guy who after all the crap he got thrown at by Liu Shan, still sends him a message after the downfall of Shu staying that he is trying to restore the kingdom.

On the scenario of Zhong Hui and Deng Ai defecting to Wu right away if it happens i do not think Hui would stay a servant of Wu for long, considering he is very opportunistic and Ai was a political dunce who would probably be sidelined very quickly in Wu's corrupt courts. Besides this is considering the troops comply with Deng Ai and Zhong Hui. Remember historically Zhong Hui and Jiang Wei were stopped because their own troops rebelled after hearing of their intentions.
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Unread postby Lafeel » Sat Nov 20, 2004 4:20 pm

Deng Ai wouldn't have defected. He was simply too loyal to the empire to even consider it. Just read through the SGYY for his actions if you need proof.
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Unread postby Exar Kun » Sat Nov 20, 2004 7:54 pm

Deng Ai wouldn't defect.He's loyal to a fault.You might think that detah might persuade him to defect but I can cite instances where ministers have willingly chosen state execution over the chance to flee and live.

Jiang Wei will also never defect.He did everything he could to restore Shu.If he didn't die when the plan failed I'd see it more likely for him to pick up a stick and charge fighting into 10,000 Wei troops than go to Wu and ask for sanctuary.

Zhong Hui also would never go.The status Hui had in Wei could never be recreated in Wu.He would either succeed with his plan or die trying.
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Unread postby Lu Kang » Sun Nov 21, 2004 12:26 am

Exar Kun wrote:Jiang Wei will also never defect.He did everything he could to restore Shu.If he didn't die when the plan failed I'd see it more likely for him to pick up a stick and charge fighting into 10,000 Wei troops than go to Wu and ask for sanctuary.


Jiang Wei's been known to switch sides before. If he was locked out of an opprountity to save Shu and there was no real chance to win he go to Wu.
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