Is Cao Cao the TRUE driving force of the novel?

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Is Cao Cao the TRUE driving force of the novel?

Unread postby Cao Ah Man » Fri Nov 12, 2004 6:22 pm

After having re-read the book, I have come to the conclusion that Cao Cao is the motivation, the drive of all the events that occoured. For example, if Cao Cao didn't fail the assasination, then he wouldn't have issued the edict that formed the alliance. And if the alliance wasn't formed, for all we know, Dong Zhuo could have remained in power, or perhaps Yuan Shao would've become the power of the northern heartland. But that's just one example. Your thoughts?
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Re: Is Cao Cao the TRUE driving force of the novel?

Unread postby Zero Omega » Fri Nov 12, 2004 6:26 pm

Cao Ah Man wrote:After having re-read the book, I have come to the conclusion that Cao Cao is the motivation, the drive of all the events that occoured. For example, if Cao Cao didn't fail the assasination, then he wouldn't have issued the edict that formed the alliance. And if the alliance wasn't formed, for all we know, Dong Zhuo could have remained in power, or perhaps Yuan Shao would've become the power of the northern heartland. But that's just one example. Your thoughts?


If Cao Cao didn't set the foundation down for Sima Yi to take over. The Dynasty might not have been fromed from Wei.
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Unread postby Emperor Zhuge Liang » Fri Nov 12, 2004 6:46 pm

If Cao Cao wasn't around we would have probably had Dong Zhuo and Yuan Shao fighting for control of the Central Plains.
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Unread postby barbarosso » Fri Nov 12, 2004 7:50 pm

I actually think that Lui Bei was cause he wrote it for the people As mentioned "Guan Hzong a shi-ist?" thread The book was difefiantly shu bia ed
because he included many of the folk stories of shu and noy of wu or wei
and alse Lui bEI IS portrayed as the untimate good guy
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Unread postby Kong Wen » Fri Nov 12, 2004 8:49 pm

barbarosso wrote:I actually think that Lui Bei was cause he wrote it for the people As mentioned "Guan Hzong a shi-ist?" thread The book was difefiantly shu bia ed

That's debatable.

barbarosso wrote:because he included many of the folk stories of shu and noy of wu or wei

That's debatable too.

barbarosso wrote:and alse Lui bEI IS portrayed as the untimate good guy

But that doesn't mean Liu Bei was the driving force of the novel. Just because he was (one of) the protagonist(s) doesn't mean he was one of the direct causes of the majority of events. I would say that Cao Cao is more of a driving force than Liu Bei in that more characters must react to his actions in the book. I don't know how accurate it is to say that he is the driving force, given everything that happens after his death; I suppose all of the post-Cao Cao scenes could be seen to resolve or reflect situations that began during his life (e.g. the Sima usurpation as a reflection of and comment on the Cao usurpation, etc.).
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Unread postby Jah-Ras-Ek » Fri Nov 12, 2004 8:55 pm

I definitly think that Cao Cao was the driving force behind the book. After all, everyone else simply reacted to whatever he did. I think it's safe to say, without Cao Cao, Liu Bei wouldn't be much of anything, maybe just a little county magistrate. So, I would say Cao Cao is more of the driving force in the novel (and history) of the Three Kingdoms era.
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Unread postby Man Chong » Fri Nov 12, 2004 9:09 pm

With a novel as expasive as RTK, it's really hard to label a single character as the "driving force."

I mean, say Cao Cao. He created the State of Wei, the base from which Jin was formed. Important? Yes.

But lessee, without Liu Bei and his creating of Shu, Sima Yi would never have earned so much respect for all the stuff he did against Shu, if Shu didn't exist. Hence, in a way, without Shu, Jin would never exist.

So therefore, there is no single "moving force."
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Unread postby Ts'ao Jian » Fri Nov 12, 2004 9:10 pm

I'd have to say that Cao Cao was the driving force. He rose on his own and achieved great heights, while others rose only through him. (ex: He defeated Yuan Shao, the greatest of his rivals at the time, by himself. He placed the stepping stones for Liu Bei's rise to power. He set up the kingdom that essentially conquered China.)
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Unread postby Cao Ah Man » Fri Nov 12, 2004 9:19 pm

hmmm....true about what you said about Sima Yi..but isn't Cao Cao the only reason that Liu Bei fled to Yi Zhou? If Cao Cao wasn't there, I don't think he'd have never had to go to Yi Zhou if not for Cao Cao kicking his butt from one end of the country to another.
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Unread postby Kong Wen » Fri Nov 12, 2004 11:02 pm

Man Chong wrote:With a novel as expasive as RTK, it's really hard to label a single character as the "driving force."

I mean, say Cao Cao. He created the State of Wei, the base from which Jin was formed. Important? Yes.

But lessee, without Liu Bei and his creating of Shu, Sima Yi would never have earned so much respect for all the stuff he did against Shu, if Shu didn't exist. Hence, in a way, without Shu, Jin would never exist.

So therefore, there is no single "moving force."

I think you're a little off in what constitutes a "driving force" for the sake of this particular thread. The creation of Shu was one major event, and it did have consequences, but it didn't necessitate a huge percentage of the events in the book. Cao Cao and his actions did necessitate most of the events in the book. He is being looked at as a moving force because almost all of the action is in some way a result of or a reaction against something he did. I'm not sure that Liu Bei can be seen in the same way, given how unthreatening his position was for a big chunk of the book.
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