Dong Zhuo, did he have potential?

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Did Dong Zhuo had the potential to rule the land?

Yes
18
45%
No
22
55%
 
Total votes : 40

Dong Zhuo, did he have potential?

Unread postby Antiochus » Wed Oct 20, 2004 12:42 am

Since the day Dong Zhuo took over the han court by ''saving'' the emperor, he was always hated by most of the court members because of is shameless and evil actions. So, if Dong Zhuo would not have been killed by Lu Bu, could he rule over the country?
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Unread postby Exar Kun » Wed Oct 20, 2004 1:19 am

Doubtful.Dong doesn't have the ability to take out Cao Cao or Yuan Shao I think.
Those two would form the primary impediment to an unimpeded reign by him.

Dong certainly wasn't making any moves to expand his territory,on the contrary,he gave up Luo Yang while running from the coalition.
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Unread postby Dennis » Wed Oct 20, 2004 1:56 am

Dong Zhuo lost battle after battle against the armies of the yellow turbans, and also didn't fair particularily well in the Xiliang rebelllion either.

It wasn't until Huangfu Song took up the fight against the Daoist cult that any major victories were one. Dong Zhuo was worthless, but came from a prestigious background, and had lots of money.
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Unread postby Exar Kun » Wed Oct 20, 2004 2:37 am

Dennis wrote:It wasn't until Huangfu Song took up the fight against the Daoist cult that any major victories were one. Dong Zhuo was worthless, but came from a prestigious background, and had lots of money.


Rather unfair I think.
I don't know everything about his early career but I do know that in the 160s and 170s he was a Major under Zhang Huan...or maybe Duan Jiong,they both rocked either way.
Anyway Dong Zhuo had a very good record in the west against the Qiang,it was recorded that the Qiang were personally very afraid of him,sort of like how they feared Ma Teng and Ma Chao.
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Unread postby Xiahou Mengde88 » Wed Oct 20, 2004 3:05 am

Well, considering that he walked out of the coalition against him, with still a significant amount of influence, and that he had the state of mind to burn down Luo Yang, in a sort of "Hey, if I can't have the capital, no one can!" kind of way, then it shows that he had the resources, the military might, and ruthlessness to be capable of conquering the land.

Liu Bei would not have survived a coalition; He couldn't even survive against Wei. It's the same for Sun Jian/Sun Ce/Sun Quan; They couldn't survive a coalition, either.

The only person I find capable of surviving a coalition is Cao Cao; Even Yuan Shao wouldn't be able to survive a coalition, as he couldn't even survive Cao Cao.

Cao Cao might not have even survived had it been Dong Zhou as a member of the coalition in his place.


And that is exactly why Minister Wang Yun developed the Chain Plot; He saw that Dong Zhou just might be the leige to rule the land, and didn't want a tyrant, like Dong Zhou to rule the land. So, he knew the only way to do it was to get his best general, Lu Bu to turn on him and assassinate him.
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Unread postby Elven Fury » Wed Oct 20, 2004 6:57 pm

Dong Zhuo... more of a horrible tyrant than i think Cao Cao is... i dont think that he had the potential to conquer and rule the land... Lu Bu was too much of a power for him to control for too long... plus he lacked the forces Yuan Shao had and the Skill of Cao Cao though i think he could have whooped them in an eating contest but i dont think he had the capacity to rule the land...
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Unread postby Xiahou Mengde88 » Wed Oct 20, 2004 9:54 pm

Dong Zhou had more forces than Yuan Shao. How could he have survived the coalition if he didn't!?

Yuan Shao's best generals were Zhang He, Wen Chou, and Yan Liang.

Dong Zhou's best generals were Lu Bu, Zhang Liao, and Hua Xiong.

Yuan's best strategists were Xun Yu and Fan Cheng.

Dong's best strategists were Jia Xu and Li Ru.

I think Dong won in the officer department, as he had plenty where that came from.

I'm pretty sure that Dong Zhou had plenty of troops in comparison to Yuan Shao, or anyone else.
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Unread postby Exar Kun » Wed Oct 20, 2004 10:11 pm

Dong Zhuo 'survived' the coalition because the coalition had no real intention of taking his head.Their only goal was making a show of force and they did that by capturing Luo Yang.
If you want to fight this point then do so and I'll elaborate.

If the coalition was really determined to see him dead then there'd be nothing to stop them from doing so.
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Unread postby Mistelten » Wed Oct 20, 2004 10:44 pm

I think Dong Zhuo was too rough around the edges and lacked the vision to be a leader. So many years in remote regions probably gave him a mindset of 'getting his due' and 'what's coming to him.'
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Unread postby Antiochus » Wed Oct 20, 2004 10:44 pm

Dong Zhou's best generals were Lu Bu, Zhang Liao, and Hua Xiong.


I dont recall Dong Zhuo even using Zhang Liao.
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