Sima Yi given too much attention?

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Who accomplished the most for Wei?

Sima Yi
Jia Xu
Guo Jia
Xun Yu
Xun You
No votes
Total votes : 50

Sima Yi given too much attention?

Unread postby Mistelten » Sun Oct 17, 2004 10:04 pm

In all of the RTK themed games it seems like Sima Yi is 'Wei's strategist' and that the other strategists of Wei get a secondary role or appear average. Sima Yi wasn't involved with Cao Cao in his Heyday. I think of Sima Yi more as to Cao Pi and Rui as Cao Cao was to emperor Xian. Cao Cao had a number of great warlords who could be portrayed as 'his strategist.' Jia Xu proved he could outwit a trickier opponent, Xun Yu and Xun You are related and both die sudden deaths later on, and of course there's Guo Jia; surpassed by none except Kongming himself.
Personally, for the next big thing(be it DW, Kessen 4, DT3, whatever), I'd prefer the emphasis on Xun Yu and You.
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Unread postby PrimeMinister Bu Zhi » Sun Oct 17, 2004 11:17 pm

I would say that Cheng Yu and Xun Yu did most out of the people you listed. Sima Yi, maybe. I never saw his SGZ bio but from what I know, all he did was beat small timers like Meng Da or Gongsun Yuan who almost any other Wei general could have beaten and he was also losing agianst Zhuge Liang. Cao Zhen and Zhang He were the ones putting up a fight. Also, I never heard of any good strategies or plans or suggestions Sima Yi ever gave other then not moving the capitol when Guan Yu attacked Fan. I think Sima Yi is overrated.
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Unread postby Jiangji » Sun Oct 17, 2004 11:51 pm

I think xun yun contribute the most for wei.
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Unread postby Mistelten » Mon Oct 18, 2004 1:50 am

dogh, I left out Cheng Yu......
Oh well. Personally, I think Xun Yu did the most over all the time. He had strategies for everything and had the most of those "My thoughts exactly!" moments with Cao Cao. Second I think is Jia Xu.
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Unread postby melee » Mon Oct 18, 2004 2:08 am

guo jia IMO.
all his strategies helped cao to conquer northern china,the heart land.
in annihilating yuan shu,lubu,and yuan shao,guo jia made great deeds at all.
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Unread postby SixWingGryffin » Mon Oct 18, 2004 10:52 am

Guo Jia was one of the major reasons Cao Cao rose so quickly. It's a pity he died so soon.
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Unread postby Zhilong » Mon Oct 18, 2004 12:37 pm

Sima Yi had a lower rank in Cao Cao's heyday. But still Cao Cao found it necessary to drag his ass out to serve him and even threatened him with death if he did not come to court.

He also gave some good advice, like pushing into Shu to stop Liu Bei though it went unheeded.
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Re: Sima Yi given too much attention?

Unread postby Kong Wen » Mon Oct 18, 2004 4:20 pm

crashman wrote:Sima Yi wasn't involved with Cao Cao in his Heyday.

The poll asks who did the most for Wei, not for Cao Cao specifically. While Sima Yi may not have come into his own until Cao Cao kicked the bucket, I still think he did a lot of nice work for Wei.

Cao Cao recognized his talent early on, even when he didn't fully utilize him.

Sima Yi was instrumental in holding Zhuge Liang out of Wei. What would have happened if Yi hadn't been there?

In addition, when Wei was in danger of falling into decadence under Cao Shuang, Sima Yi made the decision to take him out and restabilize the place. I know that Wei fell to pieces shortly after this, but that was after Sima Yi had gone to a better place.

While I certainly agree that the others on this list, specifically Xun Yu and Guo Jia, were very important in the establishment of Wei, I think their successes were comparatively limited to a short period in the kingdom's development.

PS: I guess it's odd for me to go with Sima, since my area of study is mainly pre-220 Three Kingdoms period (technically Later Later Han I guess), but I still give him credit.
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Unread postby Antiochus » Mon Oct 18, 2004 10:39 pm

In my opinion, Sima Yi saved Wei(before the sima clan took power). He is the one responsable for most of Zhuge Liang Defeats. You can also read in Deng Ai bio, that it is Sima Yi that discoverd Deng Ai, wich is also one of the greatest Wei general during the Wei/Shu wars.
Here a part of Deng Ai's bio:

Subsequently, Deng Ai was promoted to be a minor administrative officer. During a trip to the court (to present accounting records), Deng Ai got acquainted with Sima Yi, the Tai Wei of the Wei Kingdom. Sima Yi saw that Deng Ai was a man of talent and transfer him to his department. Deng Ai was soon promoted to the post of Shang Shu Lang.

So I belive he did more for Wei than any other generals.
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Unread postby dengai » Tue Oct 19, 2004 2:35 am

Has to be Xun You or Sima Yi.

Guo Jia never really do anything except for the letter that destroyed Yuan Shao's sons.
Xun Yu mainly guarded Cao Cao's territory
Jia Xu almost did nothing at all.

Xun Yu helped Cao Cao a lot when Cao was alive and Sima Yi somewhat defeated ZhugeLiang when Cao died, so I guess they're even.

You didn't mention Cheng Yu, I think he contributed more than any of the other Wei advisers.
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