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Guan Yu's jealousness

Unread postPosted: Mon Oct 04, 2004 1:26 am
by LING_TONG ^0^
First, I would point out the 2 main similarities of Guan Yu and Ma Chao.

1.) Their names used to frighten the enemies on battlefields.

After Guan's capture of Yu, SGZ says "羽 威 震 華 夏," (Guan affrighted the whole North China Plain.)
In comparison, when "先 主 遣 人 迎 超 , 超 將 兵 徑 到 城 下 。 城 中 震 怖 , 璋即 稽 首 " (Liu Bei accepted the submission of Chao, Chao led a troop to ChengDu. After hearing of Chao's arrival, ChengDu was horrified; Thus Liu Zhang immediately surrendered.)

2.) They were both excellent on combat.

I think I need not to give examples about no.2 statement.


From above 2 points, we can see they deserved a grand reputation of military, and both of them were fierce fighters.
However, these were also their origin of conflict.
According to SGZ:
羽 聞 馬 超 來 降 , 舊 非故 人 , 羽 書 與 諸 葛 亮 , 問 超 人 才 可 誰 比 類 。 亮 知 羽 護 前, 乃 答 之 曰 : 「 孟 起 兼 資 文 武 , 雄 烈 過 人 , 一 世 之 傑 ,黥 、 彭 之 徒 , 當 與 益 德 並 驅 爭 先 , 猶 未 及 髯 之 絕 倫 逸 群也 。 」 羽 美 鬚 髯 , 故 亮 謂 之 髯 。 羽 省 書 大 悅 , 以 示 賓 客。

It briefly says when Yu heard the news that Chao submitted, he sent a letter to Zhuge, asking who Chao could compare. Zhuge replied: "Chao's talent is all- round, especially he is very vigorous. Chao is like the ancient heros in modern days, he can compete with Zhang Fei; however, you are the only one who is unsurpassable." Guan was thrilled to have Zhuge's reply letter, and he showed the letter to all his guests and visitors.

From the information gathered, I find another character of Guan, except for his arrogance, he was jealous.

Unread postPosted: Mon Oct 04, 2004 1:40 am
by Big Blu
I think anyone would have done that, it's not jealous really, it's just being arrogant again. If he were jealous he'd have killed Chao or reprimanded him or something.

Unread postPosted: Mon Oct 04, 2004 1:49 am
by LING_TONG ^0^
山 陽 公 載 記 曰 : 超 因 見 備 待之 厚 , 與 備 言 , 常 呼 備 字 , 關 羽 怒 , 請 殺 之 。

there is a record saying that "because Liu valued Chao a lot, Chao always mentioned Bei's style name in conversations, Guan was mad at that and requested Bei to have Chao executed."

well, in fact Guan would like to kill Chao.

Unread postPosted: Mon Oct 04, 2004 1:55 am
by Big Blu
Heh, you win dear beauty. I concede.

Unread postPosted: Mon Oct 04, 2004 1:58 am
by LING_TONG ^0^
:oops:
the record is in fact unclear, but I think it shows Guan's ego.

Unread postPosted: Mon Oct 04, 2004 2:16 am
by Big Blu
Well we all know he was a totaly pompus jerk, so we now know that he was that & also jealous. Why, another discovery from the graceful goddess Ling.

Unread postPosted: Mon Oct 04, 2004 2:24 am
by Lu Kang
I think that his arrogance and his jealousy go hand in hand. He was so arrogant that he could no see anyone else in the Shu Kingdom getting such as rank as him. Ma Chao getting such a rank really pissed him off because he thought he was the greatest.

It's actions like this that really show his arrogance. I think that Zhuge Liang put it best when he said arrogance leads to officers being untrustworthy and looking at Guan Yu's track record in Jing you can see that there's a very good chance events like this influenced other people (in addition to all his arrogance).

Unread postPosted: Mon Oct 04, 2004 2:27 am
by Big Blu
Well he's trustworthy in the sense he'll do right by the army, but he'll mess up alot, he's a great general, just arrogant. Now looking at his track record in Jing, he id well militarily, but he messed up with the politics of that one, & he was betrayed, yes betrayed.

Unread postPosted: Mon Oct 04, 2004 2:48 am
by Lu Kang
Big Blu wrote:Well he's trustworthy in the sense he'll do right by the army, but he'll mess up alot, he's a great general, just arrogant. Now looking at his track record in Jing, he id well militarily, but he messed up with the politics of that one, & he was betrayed, yes betrayed.


Don't kid yourself, he did terribly militarilly.

He was loyal to Liu Bei but he was highly arrogant and Confucious put it nicely. Those who are arrogant have no good qualities worth mentioning.

Unread postPosted: Mon Oct 04, 2004 3:02 am
by Big Blu
If I remember correctly he's one of the key reasons Shu was formed to begin with, he was loyal, proud, & I'd say that he got pretty far, lets see, he killed Pang De, flooded Cao Ren's castle & tied his best to fight off both Wu & Wei forces with no reinforcements, then being loyal to Liu Bei chose death instead of servise to Sun Quan. Confusious was wrong about quuite a few things you know. I mean to what degree of denial will you sink to prove to yourself that Guan Yu was useless, if he was that useless, why was Cao Cao so eager to use him, & why was Sun Quan so eager to kill him? Guan Yu was a GREAT general, theres no denying that,he was totally arrogant, but he was one of the best of the time.