Guan Yu's jealousness

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Unread postby Guan Yan » Sat Mar 29, 2008 10:41 pm

Guan yu joined cao cao to prevent danger to liu bei's family. Also he was in no position to leave his post to save liu chan and that unsurpassed among fellows i dont think chuko would lie even if he knew that guan was upset about his commanding skills fighting was his best skill.

Cao ren praised as a general xu huang praised of course after being with them for so long and being a good warrior would aventualy get praise. Zhang liao for general and fighting ability for he fei, Guan had great praise in the shortest of time for serving and got great honours in short periods of time.SGZ wrote:
The Wei advisor Cheng Yu amongst others praised Guan Yu and Zhange Fei as ‘equal matches of ten thousand men’. Notice among others!!!!!!!


I can accept peoples advice for instance guan sucks at being a general i would say the general (commander) that is the greatest would be zhang liao i just tell people a few reasons why guan would be the greatest fighter from what i study carefully, you are intitled to your own opinion guan was brave great warrior but Zhao yun was not increadably praised as a warrior as good as guan but his bravery probably matches that of guan and zhang and dain.
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Unread postby Dong Zhou » Sun Mar 30, 2008 7:20 am

Evidence of his surrender having anything to do with family? Yan, Elitmish is referring to earlier then Chang Ban times when Guan Yu made no attempt to save the families
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Unread postby Guan Yan » Sun Mar 30, 2008 7:26 am

Why wouldnt it have anything to do with the family? they were with him.
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Unread postby Dong Zhou » Sun Mar 30, 2008 9:54 am

Strictly speaking, is there evidence that they were with him? Or that his surrender had anything to do with them?
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Unread postby Guan Yan » Sun Mar 30, 2008 10:05 am

then how did the family get back with liu bei?
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Unread postby Dong Zhou » Sun Mar 30, 2008 10:14 am

Your right actually, the family was captured apart from possibly Lady Gan. Lady Mi and Liu Bei's first wife (if she was still alive) never returned, Guan Yu left them behind
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Unread postby Guan Yan » Sun Mar 30, 2008 10:39 am

In the novel i dont know if it is historic but zhang fei was about to kill himself for loosing xia pi and liu bei's family there, Then Guan yu said wives and chilidren are like clothing brothers are like limbs arms and legs you can fix your clothes but how can you reatch a limb.

This refelts on guans feelings to them in history probably but maybe he did not know they were there or they were not there.
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Unread postby Shield » Sun Mar 30, 2008 3:53 pm

Elitemsh wrote:I was talking historically, you are using fiction from the novel to support your view.

Historically Zhao Yun was not placed in charge of Liu Bei's family. When i said that Guan Yu could have gone back to rescue the family, i meant those other times before Changban. You clearly didn't bother to read my post properly. There is no proof that Zhang Fei did not know that Liu Bei's family was left behind, in fact it is likely that he did. The only responsibility Liu Bei's generals had was to flee from the battle. You are using fiction from the novel to back your viewpoint.

Historically, there is no proof that Guan Yu cared especially for Liu Bei's family. He did not give conditions when surrendering to Cao Cao, this is more fiction from the novel. Guan Yu was ordered to guard Xia Pi, if he fled he would have been a joke.

You were clearly referring to the novel Guan Yu, whilst i was referring to the historical situation.


I did miss the part about you said before Chang Ban, but as for when Guan Yu could have gone back for Liu Bei family, show me one time where Guan Yu knowingly not going back for them.

BTW, historical sources as SGZ and ZZTJ do not include every detail(not to mention not totally accurate), and not everything in SGYY is fiction. Sometime I think people do not realize that.
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Unread postby Elitemsh » Sun Mar 30, 2008 6:51 pm

Shield wrote:I did miss the part about you said before Chang Ban, but as for when Guan Yu could have gone back for Liu Bei family, show me one time where Guan Yu knowingly not going back for them.

BTW, historical sources as SGZ and ZZTJ do not include every detail(not to mention not totally accurate), and not everything in SGYY is fiction. Sometime I think people do not realize that.


During Cao Cao and Liu Bei's battle against Lu Bu, Liu Bei was defeated by Gao Shun at Xiaopei. He left his wives behind. Guan Yu was present at the time and yet he did not go back for them, which he obviously could have if he cared as much as you assume. No doubt that Liu Bei knew he left his family behind and since he and Guan Yu were so close, Guan would certainly have known too.

It is pretty clear that certain facts are true in the SGYY while some others are complete fabrication. Of course not everything in SGYY is fiction, but it still cannot be used as a historical source which you tried to do. You should not use information from the SGYY to justify your points in a historical discussion.
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Unread postby Guan Yan » Mon Mar 31, 2008 7:08 am

i am just giving a simalar comment but from romance of the three kingdoms and said it is simalar the way guan acted if what you say is true.
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