Guan Yu's jealousness

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Unread postby LING_TONG ^0^ » Tue Oct 05, 2004 2:31 am

Exar Kun wrote:
I don't think it is jealousy at all.I think it is just Guan Yu's pride.

There's always a reason for jealousness. In Zhuge's case, that would be closeness; in Chao's case, that may be what you suggested - pride, (I would use another word, "rank" maybe)
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Unread postby Big Blu » Tue Oct 05, 2004 2:33 am

I never said all, & I don't remember Yuan Shao winning, I think he lost, I dunno tho, it's just a hunch. & from what I hear Pang De was a very fearsome warrior, I also remember reading in his bio that Cao Cao liked him, & that he killed off a couple of prety good Wei generals before finally being captured, & I believe that he prepared his own coffin before battle. Now that person may be great, but you in no way have said that Guan Yu is no good. But lets carry this into another thread.
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Unread postby Exar Kun » Tue Oct 05, 2004 3:08 am

Lu Kang wrote:How do you explain his reaction to Zhuge Liang coming on the scene?

"[Liu Bei] formed a clsoe relationship with [Zhuge] Liang. Guan Yu and Zhang Fei were not content.

It looks like both of them were jealous here.


You're right.
It couldn't possibly be the fact that their lord was now putting all his trust in a hermit with no credentials whatsoever.
Here he has two generals who are renowned anywhere in the land and he chooses the hermit.From the viewpoint of the two generals,that's real smart.

It's like saying all the Wu commanders at Yiling were jealous of Lu Xun,rather than just apprehensive of his ability and the trust placed in him.
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Unread postby Lu Kang » Tue Oct 05, 2004 3:16 am

It's a good thing we agree on this Exar, I kenw you'd see it my way. I mean I think we'd both agree that it would just be foolish for them to be worried about something else because it's so blatantly obvious that they were opposing the close relationship, Zhuge Liang moving into theri turf. I mean Liu Bei met Guan Yu and Zhang Fei when they had absolutely no credentials as well as the fact that they were opposing to a relationship, as Liu Bei had not given rank to Zhuge Liang. It's great to be able to see on the same wavelength for a change, isn't it?
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Unread postby Six_and_Up » Tue Oct 05, 2004 7:58 am

It's a good thing we agree on this Exar, I kenw you'd see it my way. I mean I think we'd both agree that it would just be foolish for them to be worried about something else because it's so blatantly obvious that they were opposing the close relationship, Zhuge Liang moving into theri turf. I mean Liu Bei met Guan Yu and Zhang Fei when they had absolutely no credentials as well as the fact that they were opposing to a relationship, as Liu Bei had not given rank to Zhuge Liang. It's great to be able to see on the same wavelength for a change, isn't it?


Right you sure seem to selective about facts. Remember Liu Bei had no credentials as well when he met Guan Yu and Zhang Fei. I guess the trio were walking blind together. Of course Guan Yu and Zhang Fei would not be happy or even jealous to a certain extent of Liu Bei's trust in Zhuge Liang. Remember Guan Yu and Zhang Fei were even historically the best of friends and being shafted by a hermit, well no one would take that well. Imagine if you had a close bond with a friend and he shafted you for hermit. You'd be jealous to or are you just above that?
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Unread postby Lu Kang » Tue Oct 05, 2004 11:04 am

What's your point? This is a thread devoted to Guan Yu's jealously so if he's jealous it should be here, that's why I posted the quote.

Guan Yu proved himself to be jealous at times as seen surely with Zhuge LIang and to a great extent with Ma Choa (though argueably affected by his arrogance).
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Unread postby Six_and_Up » Tue Oct 05, 2004 12:28 pm

What's your point? This is a thread devoted to Guan Yu's jealously so if he's jealous it should be here, that's why I posted the quote.

Guan Yu proved himself to be jealous at times as seen surely with Zhuge LIang and to a great extent with Ma Choa (though argueably affected by his arrogance).


Yeh but the fact is your blowing this so-called 'jealously and arrogance' of Guan Yu out of all proportion, when in fact the 'jealousy' is nothing more than just one or two minor incidents in history. I still fail to see how the Ma Chao-Guan Yu letter is a show or arrogance- considering that Guan Yu had every right to ask Zhuge Liang about the credentials of a newcomer and the fact that Zhuge Liang paid passing comment to Guan Yu's ability is nothing new that hadn't been done before.
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Unread postby Lu Kang » Tue Oct 05, 2004 10:15 pm

Six_and_Up wrote:
What's your point? This is a thread devoted to Guan Yu's jealously so if he's jealous it should be here, that's why I posted the quote.

Guan Yu proved himself to be jealous at times as seen surely with Zhuge LIang and to a great extent with Ma Choa (though argueably affected by his arrogance).


Yeh but the fact is your blowing this so-called 'jealously and arrogance' of Guan Yu out of all proportion, when in fact the 'jealousy' is nothing more than just one or two minor incidents in history. I still fail to see how the Ma Chao-Guan Yu letter is a show or arrogance- considering that Guan Yu had every right to ask Zhuge Liang about the credentials of a newcomer and the fact that Zhuge Liang paid passing comment to Guan Yu's ability is nothing new that hadn't been done before.


Correction you are blowing out of proportion. I stated them as facts and as a challenge to someone who said that there was absolutely no jealousy.

As to the arrogance, that could be seen as directly contributing to causing his officers to betray him, says Zhuge Liang.
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Unread postby Iain » Wed Oct 06, 2004 1:59 am

You know any time a man is well renowned for his abilites and skill, there is always someone out there who wants to rip away that image and damn that person for being guilty of nothing more than respect of his fellow men.

I believe Luo Guanzhong and many others over the last 1800 years turned Guan Yu into the legend he became, yes there were defeats and errors of judgement but he was just a man trying to do the best by his lord, and stayed loyal till the end. Thats probably why he is so respected now by so many people. :wink:
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Unread postby Big Blu » Wed Oct 06, 2004 2:13 am

Thank you *Hugs* finally, someone who understands.
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