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Xiahou Ba's comments on Deng Ai

Unread postPosted: Thu Sep 02, 2004 6:03 pm
by Sima Hui
In chapter 109 of the novel (I think, don't have my copy of SGYY handy! :roll: ), Xiahou Ba talks to Jiang Wei about Deng Ai and Zhong Hui.

"Recently, two young men have come to the fore," Xiahou Ba said, "Their names are Deng Ai and Zhong Hui."


What is odd is that at the time of Shu's fall, Deng Ai was sixty-seven. Xiahou Ba made that comment in 249, when Deng Ai was fifty-two. Zhong Hui would have been in his twenties but Deng Ai was already an old man for that time. Here's Jiang Wei's reply...

Jiang Wei smiled and rubbing his hands, said, "I don't think those young pups worth our consideration!"

Strange, huh? What do you think? :?

Unread postPosted: Thu Sep 02, 2004 7:45 pm
by Rommel
Hmmm, it is indeed interesting. Translation errors? I wonder what the original words are. Or Xiahou Ba & Jiang Wei were older than those two guys? young pups? Maybe Xiahou Ba & Jian Wei were OLD pups :lol:

Unread postPosted: Thu Sep 02, 2004 7:49 pm
by Li Ruiyue
Maybe Deng Ai looked young at first glance? Or maybe Xiahou Ba and Jiang Wei were mocking the two generals in some way?

Unread postPosted: Thu Sep 02, 2004 8:22 pm
by PrimeMinister Bu Zhi
Maybe 50s were still considered young. Many generals fought in their 50s. Unless you are 20 or so right now, your not going to call a someone who's 50 old. Probably compared to Jiang Wei and Xiahou Ba they were young.

Unread postPosted: Thu Sep 02, 2004 8:41 pm
by Sima Hui
Actually, according to the novel, at the time Jiang Wei was 45. :shock: I don't know about Xiahou Ba though. :? Although your point is probably correct PM Bu Zhi, it probably wasn't the case for Jiang Wei.

Unread postPosted: Fri Sep 03, 2004 12:17 am
by melee
when xiahou ba told jiang wei about two shi,he told about their childhood.
maybe that linked jiang wei to talk so?
or are just words jiang wei despised two shi? :(

master sima hui,why did you know about deng ai's life span?i tried to find it but had no result :cry:

Unread postPosted: Fri Sep 03, 2004 8:53 am
by Six_and_Up
Maybe 50s were still considered young. Many generals fought in their 50s. Unless you are 20 or so right now, your not going to call a someone who's 50 old. Probably compared to Jiang Wei and Xiahou Ba they were young.


I question that logic, since 50 year old generals would be called veterans in m view. Considering how the lifespan of people then was 40-60 years on average (Liu Bei is considered old when he dies 63, Cao Cao preapared for succesion in his 40-50's and Guan Yu before going to Fan makes a comment about generals going past 50 not complaining about dying in battle). 50 year old generals in my opinion would be considered veterans in an army and in no way young.

The comment made by Jiang Wei was probably made more in a sense to the fact that Deng Ai wasn't considered a threat due to the fact that he was unheard of and Jiang Wei not knowing how old Deng Ai was, probably assumed him to be a fairly young general in his 20-30's who had yet to prove himself in battle.

Unread postPosted: Fri Sep 03, 2004 9:36 pm
by Kong Wen
I don't think Deng Ai's age is ever explicitly mentioned in the novel; it can only be determined by going to historical sources. Thus, a very simple solution to this issue could be a fictionalization of Deng Ai's age on Luo Guanzhong's part. To make it look like Shu was conquered by a couple of fiesty up-and-comers, he turned Deng Ai and Zhong Hui into young men.

Unread postPosted: Sat Sep 04, 2004 12:39 am
by Seven at One Stroke
There is a rather comical scene in the novel where Jiang Wei chases down a young Wei general and dueled him, thinking that he's fighting Deng Ai, only to find out that it's Deng Ai's son he's fighting. Maybe Jiang Wei was just wrong about Deng's age. There is a little bit of contrast between the supposed young genius Zhong Hui (who's not even forty when Shu fell) and Deng Ai, who is pretty old by then.

Unread postPosted: Sat Sep 04, 2004 9:02 am
by Devilrai
When Xiahou Ba and Jiang Wei commented on Deng Ai's age as "young" they could have been meaning young as in a rookie, though I don' think Deng Ai was a rookie. :lol:

Zhong Hui on the other can be considered young since well he is 20, that is a young age.