Zhou Yu's tendacy to try to murder Zhuge Liang

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Zhou Yu's tendacy to try to murder Zhuge Liang

Unread postby Da_Chicago_Jigalo » Sun Aug 22, 2004 11:28 pm

Haha, whats up with Zhou Yu wanting to kill Zhuge Liang? Was it out of spite, jealousy, or did Zhou Yu know that Zhuge Liang was a threat to Wu?

At first he tried to get Zhuge Liang to join Wu by using Zhuge Jun
Then he tried to get Zhuge Liang killed by telling him to attack Wei's supplies
Then he tried to kill Liu Bei by summoning Bei and then murdering him
After that he tried to kill Zhuge Liang by telling him to get the arrows or else he would be killed by law. (Here though Kongming did his genius Arrow Ploy on Cao Cao)
And his last attempt during Chi Bi, was by straight out getting Sun Shao and Xu Sheng to murder Zhuge Liang

All ended in failure for Zhou Yu. Why do u think Zhou Yu wanted Zhuge Liang dead?
Last edited by Da_Chicago_Jigalo on Sun Aug 22, 2004 11:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Zhou Yu's tendacy to try to murder Zhuge Liang

Unread postby Jiangji » Sun Aug 22, 2004 11:46 pm

Da_Chicago_Jigalo wrote:Haha, whats up with Zhou Yu wanting to kill Zhuge Liang? Was it out of spite, jealousy, or did Zhou Yu know that Zhuge Liang was a threat to Wu?

At first he tried to get Zhuge Liang to join Wu by using Zhuge Jun
Then he tried to get Zhuge Liang killed by telling him to attack Wei's supplies
Then he tried to kill Liu Bei by summoning Bei and then murdering him
After that he tried to kill Zhuge Liang by telling him to get the arrows or else he would be killed by law. (Here though Kongming did his genius Arrow Plow on Cao Cao)
And his last attempt during Chi Bi, was by straight out getting Sun Shao and Xu Sheng to murder Zhuge Liang

All ended in failure for Zhou Yu. Why do u think Zhou Yu wanted Zhuge Liang dead?


All of this is fictional and appear only in novel. The novel wants to make ZGL look great while making Zhou yu a jerk. In SGZ, Zhou yu never jealous of ZGL or tried to kill him.
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Unread postby Da_Chicago_Jigalo » Sun Aug 22, 2004 11:49 pm

"All of this fictional and appear only in novel."

For real? O damn, i thought it was true..... Tell me, is Zhuge Liang's arrow ploy fictional too?
Last edited by Da_Chicago_Jigalo on Sun Aug 22, 2004 11:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Unread postby PrimeMinister Bu Zhi » Sun Aug 22, 2004 11:49 pm

Ding Feng and Xu Sheng, not Sun Shao. Though both make no sense since at the time, Ding Feng was just a common soldier and Sun Shao was just a palace attendant.
Lu Xun- "After much observation of how Liu Bei had been leading troops in his career, I see that he had more failures than success; hence, he is not much of a threat."
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Unread postby Jiangji » Sun Aug 22, 2004 11:50 pm

Da_Chicago_Jigalo wrote:
"All of this fictional and appear only in novel."

For real? O damn, i thought it was true..... Tell me, is Zhuge Liang's arrow plow fictional too?


Yes, it is fictional. I think it was Sun Quan idea. The novel is extreme pro Shu while the SGZ is pro Wei. The novel tend to overated the Shu officer while underated the Wu.
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Re: Zhou Yu's tendacy to try to murder Zhuge Liang

Unread postby Devilrai » Sun Aug 22, 2004 11:56 pm

Da_Chicago_Jigalo wrote:Haha, whats up with Zhou Yu wanting to kill Zhuge Liang? Was it out of spite, jealousy, or did Zhou Yu know that Zhuge Liang was a threat to Wu?


All of the above...somewhat

Zhou Yu did know that the famed Zhuge Liang could be and was a threat to the kingdom of Wu, and as well Zhuge Liang was with Liu Bei a person who holds no land but is attracted by many people by his virtue and for that Zhou Yu wanted to kill Zhuge Liang and also trying to murder Liu Bei.

I don't want to say that Zhou Yu was jealous but rather in competion with Zhuge Liang and being on the losing side but what does Zhou Yu have to be jealous about? He was a a great strategist, very cunning he was just as good as Zhuge Liang and not to mention Zhou Yu's successors; Lu Su, Lu Meng, Lu Xun, etc. So for that I cannot say that he was jealous of Zhuge Liang but just mad of being on a losing battle with him...f that makes any sort of sense. :lol:
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Unread postby PrimeMinister Bu Zhi » Mon Aug 23, 2004 12:43 am

If you ask me, Zhuge Liang was NOT a threat to Wu, but actually helped them. He allied with Wu after Yiling and when the rest of the Shu courts wanted to break the allience when Wu became emperor, Zhuge Liang convinced them otherwise. Zhuge Liang helped Wu. Also, Zhuge Liang never proved himself better or even worthy when Zhou Yu was alive. All he did was help Liu Bei run away. He couldn't even win the debate at the Wu courts and then when Zhou Yu came, only he could list the pointers on Cao Cao's weakness, not Zhuge Liang. Then at Chibi, Zhuge Liang does not summon the wind, it just happens. It's not impossible for wind to blow is it? So basicly, Zhou Yu has no reason to be jealous.
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Unread postby Shield of Rohan » Mon Aug 23, 2004 1:23 am

I agree with you there. Zhuge Liang was the only one to naysay the foolish ideas in the courts of Wu and Shu that pressed for conflict between the two states, from after the fall of Yi to Yiling. Kongming saw that both kingdoms must work to fight the strongest as common sense would dictate.

Back to Zhou Yu, his Chi Bi contributions are overplayed, along with Kongming's, by LGZ. But through the course of his life, Kongming proved to be the greatest strategic mind of the era through his contributions to the kingdom of Shu. I don't think anyone can argue that Zhuge Liang's plan to destroy Wei in alliance with Wu, from its beginnings where Liu Bei was at Xin Ye to Guan Yu's death, could have failed. He was great, great enough to bring a distant relative of the Han line to the lord of a great kingdom that could have reunified the land and misfortune not beset him. That being said, I still fail to see where Zhou Yu was jealous of him.
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Unread postby Jiangji » Mon Aug 23, 2004 1:35 am

PrimeMinister Bu Zhi wrote:If you ask me, Zhuge Liang was NOT a threat to Wu, but actually helped them. He allied with Wu after Yiling and when the rest of the Shu courts wanted to break the allience when Wu became emperor, Zhuge Liang convinced them otherwise. Zhuge Liang helped Wu. Also, Zhuge Liang never proved himself better or even worthy when Zhou Yu was alive. All he did was help Liu Bei run away. He couldn't even win the debate at the Wu courts and then when Zhou Yu came, only he could list the pointers on Cao Cao's weakness, not Zhuge Liang. Then at Chibi, Zhuge Liang does not summon the wind, it just happens. It's not impossible for wind to blow is it? So basicly, Zhou Yu has no reason to be jealous.


If it wasn't ZGL, I think Liu bei could have long been dead. Again making an alliances with Wu is not an easy task at all for ZGL. At that time, Liu bei have only a few thousand army and have no allies. Who would allies with him? The alliances bring more benefit to Liu bei than Sun Quan as it help Liu bei to capture Jingzhou and Yizhou and became stronger than Wu.

I can discuss it with you at here

http://the-scholars.com/viewtopic.php?t=10075&start=180
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Unread postby Lao Tzu » Thu Oct 21, 2004 1:35 am

I believe that Zhou Yu merely had Wu's best interests at heart and saw Zhuge as a threat to the state of Wu. He wanted to stop Kungming before any influential power fell into his hands and even though Wu and Shu were allies during some time you have to remember that a war was going on and the only person you can truly trust is yourself.

I don't blame Zhou Yu for thinking of Zhuge as a threat. He was just trying to aniticipate what would happen in the future and knew Zhuge would eventually pose a problem to Wu.
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