Jiang Wei, scared of death?

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Jiang Wei, scared of death?

Unread postby Antiochus » Sun Aug 22, 2004 3:16 am

After that Xiahou Ba joined Shu, Jiang Wei proposed that an other invasion is to be made as fast as possible. Which in the end, leaded to Shu demise because they had no more resourses. When Jiang Wei asked to Liu Shan to send a new expedition, Fei Yi refused. Jiang Wei responded by this:

"Not so," replied Jiang Wei. "Life is short. Our days flash by as the glint of a white horse across a chink in the door.


Could it be that because of the fact that Zhuge Liang died because he was not conquering Wei fast enough scared Jiang Wei? Making him ask the Shu emperor to help him speed things up so that he could die after having accomplished is great actions, unlike Zhuge. I would like to know if this could be is motives for all of those campaings that did not even worked.

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Re: Jiang Wei, scared of death?

Unread postby Jiangji » Sun Aug 22, 2004 3:27 am

Jai Xu wrote:After that Xiahou Ba joined Shu, Jiang Wei proposed that an other invasion is to be made as fast as possible. Which in the end, leaded to Shu demise because they had no more resourses. When Jiang Wei asked to Liu Shan to send a new expedition, Fei Yi refused. Jiang Wei responded by this:

"Not so," replied Jiang Wei. "Life is short. Our days flash by as the glint of a white horse across a c**** in the door.


Could it be that because of the fact that Zhuge Liang died because he was not conquering Wei fast enough scared Jiang Wei? Making him ask the Shu emperor to help him speed things up so that he could die after having accomplished is great actions, unlike Zhuge. I would like to know if this could be is motives for all of those campaings that did not even worked.

The censored word is c-h-i-n-k


The failure of jiang wei campaign is mainly because lack of cooperation from inside. For example, limitation of troops allowed to bring, reinforcement that is promised never arrived, the betrayal of Qiang, recalled from battlefied while it is winning. Lack of resources is not the reason why Shu fall. Liu Shan does not listen to jiang Wei advice .
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Unread postby robbyjo » Sun Aug 22, 2004 4:19 am

I agree with Jiangji's comment, but Jiang Wei's campaign to the north was over ambitious, IMHO... they drained Shu's resources too quickly...

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Unread postby boogiepopmeup » Sun Aug 22, 2004 4:34 am

I would like to know if this could be is motives for all of those campaings that did not even worked.

well a few times he was told to go and most of his campaigns were successful, but failed because of what jiangji said.
even jiang wei's proposals for defense were denied on the advice of huang hao saying wei would soon fall.
and jiang wei did not fear death as he took his own life.
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Unread postby ZhangBaihu » Sun Aug 22, 2004 6:07 am

Much like the Bonecrusher of modern day, Jiang Wei "ain't never scared." He was in fact quite the opposite. The prevailing sentiment in Shu was afraid of military campaigns against Wei, but Jiang Wei lobbied for a militaristic direction for the country resulting in his 9 offensives.
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Unread postby PrimeMinister Bu Zhi » Sun Aug 22, 2004 3:59 pm

The population of Shu, and the officials and everyone else was afraid of campaigns because they are pointless and will accomplish nothing. Only improvish Shu. Jiang Wei was a military failure. Everything that happened was 100% his fault. He destroyed Shu and was Liu Shan and Huang Hao's right hand man.
Lu Xun- "After much observation of how Liu Bei had been leading troops in his career, I see that he had more failures than success; hence, he is not much of a threat."
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Unread postby Jiangji » Sun Aug 22, 2004 4:29 pm

PrimeMinister Bu Zhi wrote:The population of Shu, and the officials and everyone else was afraid of campaigns because they are pointless and will accomplish nothing. Only improvish Shu. Jiang Wei was a military failure. Everything that happened was 100% his fault. He destroyed Shu and was Liu Shan and Huang Hao's right hand man.


What is your evidence that jiang Wei was a military failure? Failure in his northen campaign is not entire his fault. I suggest your read through SGZ before giving such view. He is not as powerful as ZGL and hold a rank lower ZGL. He is not prime minister and it was jiang Wan after ZGL died. So, he can't simply do anything he wants.
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Unread postby PrimeMinister Bu Zhi » Sun Aug 22, 2004 4:35 pm

I do, and he attacked at the wrong times all the time. Liao Hua even commented: "How can one keep attacking when he does not have numerical advantage or better strategy then his foe, this applies to Jiang Wei". It's true. His generals hated him, and disagreed with him. The people of Shu were poor and the country was improvished. And Jiang Wei is to blame simply for attacking Wei, wheater it was his fualt or not wheater he lost, attacking Wei did all this and Jiang Wei destroyed Shu. Many in Shu think that way.
Lu Xun- "After much observation of how Liu Bei had been leading troops in his career, I see that he had more failures than success; hence, he is not much of a threat."
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Unread postby Jiangji » Sun Aug 22, 2004 4:38 pm

PrimeMinister Bu Zhi wrote:I do, and he attacked at the wrong times all the time. Liao Hua even commented: "How can one keep attacking when he does not have numerical advantage or better strategy then his foe, this applies to Jiang Wei". It's true. His generals hated him, and disagreed with him. The people of Shu were poor and the country was improvished. And Jiang Wei is to blame simply for attacking Wei, wheater it was his fualt or not wheater he lost, attacking Wei did all this and Jiang Wei destroyed Shu. Many in Shu think that way.


Yes, his northen campaign drained the kingdom resources. But you have to know what cause all this campaign fail. Here are some I previously posted out. The failure of jiang wei campaign is mainly because lack of cooperation from inside. For example, limitation of troops allowed to bring, reinforcement that is promised never arrived, the betrayal of Qiang, recalled from battlefied while it is winning. The last two campaign was quite successful but was recalled by Liu Shan.
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Unread postby PrimeMinister Bu Zhi » Sun Aug 22, 2004 4:44 pm

The Qiang's betrayed him because he used them as hostages and forced them to fight Wei. The whole Liu Shan recalling him is all novel, and according to Deng Ai's and Chen Tai's SGZ bios, they beat Jiang Wei the old fasion way, outmanuevering and outsmarting. Both saw through all of Jiang's strategems and crushed his army in battle, this caused him to lose more then anything else.
Lu Xun- "After much observation of how Liu Bei had been leading troops in his career, I see that he had more failures than success; hence, he is not much of a threat."
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