Anshi wrote:Although I agree with Lu Su's advice in this instance (i.e., don't fight with Liu Bei until Cao Cao is defeated), I don't think that Liu Bei would turn to Cao Cao unless Wu had already been defeated, or it looked like Wu was definitely going to be defeated, because he was bright enough to know he couldn't survive on his own.
Wu simply did not have enough troops to fight on two fronts to defeat both Cao Cao and Liu Bei (not to mention the Shan Yue).
Zhou Lide wrote:So do you believe that Lu Su was just humouring Zhou Yu? There was absolutely no chance of Liu Bei going to Cao Cao if he was really in trouble?
Anshi wrote:More or less. I think he was just trying to support his own position by saying something Zhou Yu would fear. In reality, it is more likely that Liu Bei would flee to Liu Zhang, Zhang Lu or Ma Chao than Cao Cao.
Anshi wrote:Another example of this is when Guo Jia is making a speech encouraging Cao Cao to attack Yuan Shao, he calls Zhang He a "fool" (or something to that effect), when obviously this is not true. He is merely trying to encourage Cao Cao to attack, and not necessarily telling him the truest or most accurate things.
Cao Ren wrote:Lie Bei would never surrender to him. I think he would much rather die than surrender. I don't think he would be a fool and surrender to cao cao because that his like killing yourself. With the times back then cao cao would surely kill him after he submitted. I think Lu Su was saying that because if they got into any Military action with Liu Bei they might lose and die(and zhou yu did).(i think Lu Su feared Kongming)
Chao Tzu Lung1 wrote:i agreee with cao ren, lu su feared kongmins just as most generals of that time, but then u hae people like zhou yu who tho they could defeat and maybe claim to be better than kongming, which was not true. sima yi was kongming's only equal rival.
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