Propganda and Prophecy

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Re: Propganda and Prophecy

Unread postby Dong Zhou » Sun Mar 11, 2018 5:03 pm

Han wrote:What past question?


Don't worry just one of the recent questions, it is just whether I would need to copy the translation or not for that tale. I'll probably do so

Han, next time your searching for the existence of an officer like "who is this Liu Ping being talked about", I would search the kongming encyclopaedia. That will at least give you a "ah there is a Wu Liu Ping, a Han Liu Ping, let me look at the Han one" to then work from
“You, are a rebellious son who abandoned his father. You are a cruel brigand who murdered his lord. How can Heaven and Earth put up with you for long? And unless you die soon, how can you face the sight of men?”
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Re: Propganda and Prophecy

Unread postby Han » Sun Mar 11, 2018 8:56 pm

I cant remember a question related to Lady Gan though.

Noted. And thanks.
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Re: Propganda and Prophecy

Unread postby Dong Zhou » Mon Mar 12, 2018 6:28 am

No it is just broadening a discussion we are having to a wider point

Edit: Scratch that, the tale isn't in an annotation but from another fragment that Empress and Consorts mentions in a note

By the way, I think you think you missed my wider question on what other prophecies of the other you were felt were treason or morally wrong?
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Re: Propganda and Prophecy

Unread postby Han » Tue Mar 13, 2018 8:18 pm

The story is in GongJin Memorial

I answered it here

Hmmm, how about those that are not backed by political realities and have no reasonings? :wink:
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Re: Propganda and Prophecy

Unread postby Dong Zhou » Tue Mar 13, 2018 8:24 pm

Thanks

Perhaps you could name those who you consider to have done so?
“You, are a rebellious son who abandoned his father. You are a cruel brigand who murdered his lord. How can Heaven and Earth put up with you for long? And unless you die soon, how can you face the sight of men?”
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Re: Propganda and Prophecy

Unread postby Han » Tue Mar 13, 2018 8:46 pm

Anyone other than Zhang Yu I guess.
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Re: Propganda and Prophecy

Unread postby Dong Zhou » Wed Mar 14, 2018 6:33 am

Sorry I'm being dim here but want clarity: all soothsayers other then Qiao Zhou and Du Qiong were without reasoning or all othr then Zhang Yu were with reasoning?
“You, are a rebellious son who abandoned his father. You are a cruel brigand who murdered his lord. How can Heaven and Earth put up with you for long? And unless you die soon, how can you face the sight of men?”
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Re: Propganda and Prophecy

Unread postby Han » Wed Mar 14, 2018 11:52 am

I cannot speak for other soothsayers. But Du Qiong and Qiao Zhou did give their reasonings.
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Re: Propganda and Prophecy

Unread postby Dong Zhou » Wed Mar 14, 2018 1:46 pm

It occurs to me (while finding a Wei mystic sgz I had never read on xuesangou's) in last few days that most don't have their reasoning recorded for the predictions, just the predictions (or that they made predictions). Guan Lu is the main "not Chen Shou connected" one I can think of where some of his reasoning is given for two specific people's fates

Within that "ok most aren't recorded", could you give me specific examples bar Zhang Yu where the shift is from "unfortunately not recorded" to "the soothsayer was wrong to say it"
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Re: Propganda and Prophecy

Unread postby Han » Wed Mar 14, 2018 8:09 pm

You talking about Zhou Xuan? He did give dreams as his reasonings. And Chen Shou used interpretations of dreams as appraisal.

In Ancient China, saying that the Dynasty you live in would definitely fall publicly especially when it was facing a tense political situation would not be a good look.

I dont know any specific examples unfortunately. Most that I have read usually give reasonings.
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