Entertainment product: is historical element have bad influe

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Entertainment product: is historical element have bad influe

Unread postby yevonsama » Sat Oct 22, 2016 3:54 am

I have interested in entertainment products which use historical background. However, many guys usually talk me something like “ history is boring”, “ fewer customs will buy the product if it have historical element.” :cry:

Is that real? So, I want to ask everyone’s idea:

1/ Are the players of Total War series ( and Age of Empire series, RTK, Dynasty Warrior, Call of duty series, Battlefield,…) really care about historical element in game – in both good and bad way?
Exp: “ I will/will not play this game, because it take the background in some historical periods.”???

2/ Why these entertainment products almost just focus on several historical period: Ancient of Egypt, Rome, Crusader, Napoleon War and World War 2 – with Chinese and Japanese studio, we have Three Kingdom period and Sengoku Jidai? :(

Even with American video game studio, we can see they made very very few game about America Revolution, India War, Cowboy ( and they usually say America Civil War and WW1 is too boring to made video game).

3/ Have any different between a strange fantasy world with a less-famous period?

Exp: people love Game of Throne while very few have interested in War of Roses period. And some video game - Mount and Blade - base on a fantasy world which almost as same as Europe’s medieval period. Why they have to creat a fantasy world if that world almost just as same as the reality?

4/ Is less-famous historical background cause players confuse when playing the game?

Even I – a guy who love to learning history of every nation – I really confuse when playing Cossack 1’s Uckraine and Russia campaign. This is the first time I know about Uckraine and Russia history, too. I don’t know that is because of the way they tell their story or not. However, I can’t imagine what are happening during the campaign at all :shock: .

May be that is because I don’t have any knowledge about these nation’s history before?

So, that mean these less-famous nations should introduce a period which everyone have a little knowledge before?

Exp:
- Burmese: instead made about the legendary Bayinnaung, they should made about Mongol invasion? ( “ Oh, I don’t know anything about Pagan dynasty, but I know Mongol. Are they really defeated Mongol :shock: ? I want to see more about their story.”

- Vietnam: instead made about Tay Son dynasty, they should made about Vietnam during Chinese’s Three Kingdom period? ( “ wait! Vietnam is a part of Chinese during Three Kingdom period? They really at war with Wu dynasty :shock: ? I can’t wait to see what were happening in that land while Cao Cao, Sun Quan, Liu Bei were fighting against each other”)

- Korean: Imjin war ( Korean defeated Hideyoshi from Sengoku Jidai? I want to see that were going on :shock: …”)

Hope everyone share me your idea???
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Re: Entertainment product: is historical element have bad in

Unread postby Valvatorez » Sat Oct 22, 2016 5:33 am

Hopefully I can post something of what you are looking for without rambling on too much :lol:
1.) So for me personally, I always thought history was boring and just randomly picked up a copy of Dynasty Warriors years ago, I think it may have been DW5, and enjoyed it and saw a copy of Rotk XI for ps2 at gamestop for $30 and decided to try it, and after finishing an entire scenario, thought I would never play it again because it took so long to complete. Yet here we are almost 10 years later and I still play it regularly on pc :lol: But my point is that I wasn't interested in this stuff at all or even knew about Chinese history when I picked up the games but I liked how a lot of the characters were presented and playing as them so decided to start learning about them more and more. (I started by reading all their in game profiles/bios, then checked their online pages, read through the entire RoTK book online, watched the entire tv series, and read through stuff on here too, so even though I had no knowledge of the time period at the time of getting the game, it just led me to learning more about it over the years as time went by.) The same thing happened but to a lesser extent with Nobunaga's Ambition games and I still enjoy learning about both of those time periods. Some of the games like Warriors Orochi throw a lot of the historical elements away pretty much for some things yet are still fun to play as, so having everything be completely historical isn't that important to me, but on other games that have a more strategy type of feel, I like having things be mostly realistic, and to try to be at least somewhat accurate to history I guess. One thing that is kinda neat is having my own custom characters start out as a new force and watching the real people go through their own timelines and being able to watch that firsthand or even prevent or encourage some of the other events from happening. I think something like Crusader Kings this can happen, but didn't play enough of it to find out, but hope you know what I meant.

2.) Ancient Egypt is the most interesting time period in history for me, but second would be Three Kingdoms era China and the Sengoku era of Japan, but some of the ones you listed just don't seem interesting at all to me personally. American history is boring to me, but maybe because I had to endure that stuff in school by incredibly boring teachers? But I think a game that has those type of elements from other games based on those time periods could be interesting, but people rarely make them like you said.

3.) Not sure what you mean with this one, its kinda like taking a certain time period and creating your own story or characters from that time period and there's lots of games, shows or movies that do this. You mentioned the War of the Roses period, and that makes me think of a Yu-Gi-Oh game that was based off of that on ps2 I think and I remember that being a complete mess to try to understand what was happening lol, but maybe I was just too young to care about the time period back then. But yeah, just try to take that those kinda things as someone that is interested in those time periods and crafting their own stories or characters from that period?

4.) I think maybe that some of the lesser known periods don't really have that many people or stories you could completely base a game around? It would be hard to take something like a smaller country from way in the past that has little known history and try to make an entire game around it.
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Re: Entertainment product: is historical element have bad in

Unread postby yevonsama » Sat Oct 22, 2016 10:55 am

thank you for your post. Follow what are you saying, I understand that :D :

- people don't really care have historical element in game or not.
- If you made a video game about some "boring history period", or even " unknown period", you should:
+ made your gameplay good enough and everyone will play your game.
+ explain your "history" so simple and interesting enough, and players will not confuse :? or tired because these new history period.
+ try to show they how interesting these period is :wink: .

-------------------

If you don't mind. May be some more question :D ?

- Are you feel any tire or difficult to learn the Three Kingdom story because these character have very strange name??? Serious, it is very difficult for me to remember Three Kingdom character's name in English. :| And I have same trouble with Russia and Uckraine, too. :|
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Re: Entertainment product: is historical element have bad in

Unread postby Valvatorez » Sat Oct 22, 2016 11:42 am

Yeah, you're right. I think of something like the Mayans, they seem like they would have an interesting history and background, but I can't even name one person from Mayan history to make a game or story around :lol:

Yeah it can take a while to get used to all the names, but after a while you get used to them and playing different games with them in them helps you learn them better over time, so keep at it and you will get used to them hopefully :lol:
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Re: Entertainment product: is historical element have bad in

Unread postby Dong Zhou » Sat Oct 22, 2016 4:54 pm

1) Some will pick and choose their warriors or Total War game (I do) based on what period covers, others will just play the franchise wherever it is set becuase they love the games. I think shooters it tends to be the brand but they like to change periods becuase "oh god not another WW2 shooter" fatigue.

2) A mixture of what the developers will want to make, what period excites them or they know enough about to make a strong narrative+game play and market (including outside their own country) will want, what period will lure gamers and not turn them off. There will be an element of "not controversial period" so American Civil War is probably out or vs Native Americans.

Given the success of Red Dead Redemption, it is surprising there hasn't been more Western games.

3) To create a fantasy world allows dragons, magic and a certain freedom. You can borrow ideas from other times of history (GOT borrowed tales from Scotland for example), your characters aren't trapped by some semblance of having to follow history (you write about William Wallace, he has to lose at some point) or in cases like Mount and Blade, you admit want to avoid big name NPC's.

4) Not if the game has done the explaining properly
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Re: Entertainment product: is historical element have bad in

Unread postby yevonsama » Sun Oct 23, 2016 12:04 am

hmm.

I think shooters it tends to be the brand but they like to change periods becuase "oh god not another WW2 shooter" fatigue


yeah. That is why I asked the second question.

They said " this period is too familiar and everyone get boring about it". However, they still continue made game about these periods. Even with WW2, they almost just made about: Normandy, Pacific War, Soviet campaign ( some game include Africa battlefield). Very few of them think about some new element exp: Burma campaign; Sino-Japan war, Invade Italia,... :| )

2/ hmm... with these less-famous period, you think can we increase the players/ readers' excite by introduce some element which familiar to them? As same as these exp I talked about in fourth question. :?
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Re: Entertainment product: is historical element have bad in

Unread postby Dong Zhou » Sun Oct 23, 2016 6:34 am

yevonsama wrote:
-------------------

If you don't mind. May be some more question :D ?

- Are you feel any tire or difficult to learn the Three Kingdom story because these character have very strange name??? Serious, it is very difficult for me to remember Three Kingdom character's name in English. :| And I have same trouble with Russia and Uckraine, too. :|


I'm used to the three kingdoms names which I blame on long playing of DW but I could see the problem if I picked up a three kingdoms strategy game for first time

yevonsama wrote:They said " this period is too familiar and everyone get boring about it". However, they still continue made game about these periods. Even with WW2, they almost just made about: Normandy, Pacific War, Soviet campaign ( some game include Africa battlefield). Very few of them think about some new element exp: Burma campaign; Sino-Japan war, Invade Italia,... :| )

2/ hmm... with these less-famous period, you think can we increase the players/ readers' excite by introduce some element which familiar to them? As same as these exp I talked about in fourth question. :?


I think we are at the start of WW2 fatigue and it be awhile before the games stop (and return for a third period).

An established franchise like Call of Duty and Total War can do a new era or somewhere unexpected and as long as reviews aren't bad, take audience with them. For others, they will need strong marketing and reviews to pull people in for the game play. Of course, the game developers would need to want to make that period into game in first place and it might be hard sell to the superiors who have to finance the game

Valvatorez wrote:American history is boring to me, but maybe because I had to endure that stuff in school by incredibly boring teachers?


There is no boring time period in history, what there is unfortunately a lot of is people's interest being killed by way it is taught :wink:
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Re: Entertainment product: is historical element have bad in

Unread postby yevonsama » Sun Oct 23, 2016 7:27 am

There is no boring time period in history, what there is unfortunately a lot of is people's interest being killed by way it is taught :wink:


I'm agree with you.
History be taught in the school usually make everyone hate History. :|

I thought Vietnam war is boring until I read some topic about " the tactic ( used by both VC and Allied) during Vietnam War". It almost excited me. :lol:

Until now, almost video game ( mostly is FPS) about Vietnam war is fail. I think one among many reason is they still can't find anyway for the players use "Vietnam war tactic" in these game. :?
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Re: Entertainment product: is historical element have bad in

Unread postby Dong Zhou » Mon Oct 24, 2016 8:35 am

I remember a scene in Blackadder (British comedy) film where Blackadder time-travels and meets Shakespeare... so punches the playwright for all the schoolchildren who had to suffer due to his work. Shakespere is great but people get turned off thanks to schools

yevonsama wrote:Until now, almost video game ( mostly is FPS) about Vietnam war is fail. I think one among many reason is they still can't find anyway for the players use "Vietnam war tactic" in these game. :?


I think there was one made a few years back. There is that if your the US, your writing about a painful defeat that has many people still alive and where the nasty side of the war has to be handled very carefully (and can't just be ignored) to avoid outrage.
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