Total War Warhammer

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Re: Total War Warhammer

Unread postby Dong Zhou » Sat Sep 16, 2017 2:09 pm

I haven't tried any of the Total War games, but it seems very interesting. Is there a steep learning curve for first timers?


I wouldn't say so as long as you have a basic understanding of strategy games and they tend to ease you in with early stage being "unite province by beating local rebels"

I'm surprised at how much it skipped over but the High Elves schemes look fun to play with. Moon dragon fight was fun, nice scenery in new world trailer. Lizardman trailer was better, gave more of a sense of all the things one can do with them, how vortx can change pace and a nice bit of humour
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Re: Total War Warhammer

Unread postby Gray Riders » Sat Sep 16, 2017 8:24 pm

So far it looks like only the main faction of the other races works on the vortex--Malekith for the Dark Elves, Tyrion for the High Elves, etc. I imagine the player will do it instead if he's playing the other but it makes me wonder if knocking out the main faction shuts down that race's ritual race or if another can take over. So if you destroy Malekith will Morathi (or even one of the non-playable Dark Elf factions) take over the ritual, or are they out of the race?

Edit: TotalBiscuit's been streaming a Skaven campaign. Apparently he completed the first ritual, revealing
spoiler
A Verminlord in a cinematic.
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Re: Total War Warhammer

Unread postby LiuBeiwasGreat » Mon Sep 18, 2017 1:54 pm

Ah, I want to cover the world in giant rats. I don't care as much about conquering the world but laying it to ruin. Maybe as I loved the vampire counts I will love corrupting The world as Skaven.
The only part I am concerned about is that I tend to move slowly and it looks like the key to Skaven is moving quickly as their corruption harms them as well. We shall see.
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Re: Total War Warhammer

Unread postby Gray Riders » Mon Sep 18, 2017 3:52 pm

LiuBeiwasGreat wrote:Ah, I want to cover the world in giant rats. I don't care as much about conquering the world but laying it to ruin. Maybe as I loved the vampire counts I will love corrupting The world as Skaven.
The only part I am concerned about is that I tend to move slowly and it looks like the key to Skaven is moving quickly as their corruption harms them as well. We shall see.

Rebellions are really just a source of extra experience and money if you have an army nearby. It's actually a very powerful strategy to raid your own regions to create rebellions to immediately crush.
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Re: Total War Warhammer

Unread postby LiuBeiwasGreat » Mon Sep 18, 2017 4:32 pm

I can honestly say that has never occurred to me. That might work well for Skaven as I am sure I will get tons of rebellions. As for other races, I am still OCD about keeping public order up :P
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Re: Total War Warhammer

Unread postby Gray Riders » Mon Sep 18, 2017 6:50 pm

LiuBeiwasGreat wrote:I can honestly say that has never occurred to me. That might work well for Skaven as I am sure I will get tons of rebellions. As for other races, I am still OCD about keeping public order up :P

It's a pretty dirty trick, though for some races it's makes sense, like Greenskins--though they're actually the worst at it because the Raiding Camp doesn't lower your own Public Order by as much as regular raiding, and unlike normal raiding cuts off the region's income.

For the Skaven robbing your own people so they'll rebel and you can kill and eat them is frighteningly in character.

Has everyone decided who they'll play first in campaign? I know I'm running Queek first, probably Mazdamundi second but maybe Tyrion.

EDIT:
https://www.totalwar.com/blog/mortal-empires
Information on the combined campiagn and the Warhammer II FLC array.
Norsca will not be in the combined campaign at launch, and we're getting three free Legendary Lords. First looks like Skaven (Thanquol, almost certainly), then High Elves, then Lizardmen. We can see bits of more to the side, and I'm guessing one will be a Dark Elf LL.

Edit: Heh. Confirmed by CA on reddit it's not Thanquol.
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Re: Total War Warhammer

Unread postby Dong Zhou » Thu Sep 21, 2017 7:49 am

I'm wondering with the mortal camapign, if I played as empire, would the short/long camapign goals be gone? The opening story, the chapters with little objectives? I'm tempted to play the old factions again due to extra stuff in capitals, the "traits levelling up" system (so if your general wins a lot of offensive battles, that goes up and up) but I value the story elements. I'm guessing no
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Re: Total War Warhammer

Unread postby Gray Riders » Thu Sep 21, 2017 12:58 pm

Dong Zhou wrote:I'm wondering with the mortal camapign, if I played as empire, would the short/long camapign goals be gone? The opening story, the chapters with little objectives? I'm tempted to play the old factions again due to extra stuff in capitals, the "traits levelling up" system (so if your general wins a lot of offensive battles, that goes up and up) but I value the story elements. I'm guessing no

Mortal Empires is still mostly a big mystery, and I'm very curious how it's going to end up working.

The trait leveling system is actually already in the game, it's just hidden from the player--it's how traits have worked in the series for most of it's existence.
Repeatedly executing enemies, for instance, will give you traits lowering public order that get worse and worse as you do it. However, it's somewhat randomized. Each trait has a point threshold required, and the point gain is random.

For a made up example, say there was a trait series called "Good Recruiter" that gave recruitment cost bonuses, and had three levels that gave bigger bonuses. It has a 10% chance of giving a point when the general recruits a new unit, and requied 3 points for the first level, 7 for the second, and 12 for the third.

Other fun hidden fact:
Like ranged units, melee units have varying attack speeds, but unlike ranged units the game doesn't tell you! Many spear or halberd units attack slower than usual, the Varghulf's low-for-a-monster damage is offset by a faster attacks, and Chaos Chosen with Halberds attack so much slower than regular Chaos Warriors with Halberds they ultimately do only slightly more damage.
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Re: Total War Warhammer

Unread postby LiuBeiwasGreat » Sun Sep 24, 2017 4:37 pm

So I have been watching streams of the Skaven campaign and it is hard to contain my excitement for this game. The guy is playing as the magic Lord and either the guy is very good or Skaven are quite over powered. The ability to summon multiple clan rat units per battle for only a small amount of food can greatly alter a battle. I saw him fight a battle in which the AI said there was no way of winning and not only did he succeed but easily.

The fact that the Lord he was playing as got a magic ability which allowed him to summon even more clan rats (had a very short range at least) made it look like you would have to be terrible to lose unless your opponent has the highest tier units.

I am going to enjoy Skaven until they decide to nerf then :lol:
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Re: Total War Warhammer

Unread postby Gray Riders » Sun Sep 24, 2017 5:53 pm

LiuBeiwasGreat wrote:So I have been watching streams of the Skaven campaign and it is hard to contain my excitement for this game. The guy is playing as the magic Lord and either the guy is very good or Skaven are quite over powered. The ability to summon multiple clan rat units per battle for only a small amount of food can greatly alter a battle. I saw him fight a battle in which the AI said there was no way of winning and not only did he succeed but easily.

The fact that the Lord he was playing as got a magic ability which allowed him to summon even more clan rats (had a very short range at least) made it look like you would have to be terrible to lose unless your opponent has the highest tier units.

I am going to enjoy Skaven until they decide to nerf then :lol:

I was watching a Queek playthrough (who is listed as "easy" on the selection screen) and yeah, Skaven look insane. Menace Below lets you pop in behind walls to flank during siege or possibly open unguarded gates, Warpfire Throwers seem crazy--they have so much splash that flanking with them still seemed to kill entire rows of frendly units. Queek himself seems insanely powerful--even with the AI's Very Hard buffs he ripped past a unit than devoured the High Elf general with barely any damage, and he can get Frenzy (and I think Causes Fear) with his skill tree. Of course he's supposed to be a killing machine.

Public order looks like it's supposed to be their weakness--the more stuff you build the lower it gets--but as I mentioned earlier that's really just more exp and food. I believe it was said that the release version won't have the same balance as what we've seen so far, though, so they may have already gotten the nerf stick or the others have some crazy bonuses we haven't seen yet.

Other campaign notes:
*I've noticed some (maybe all?) caster Lords now seem to start with several spells. Teclis seems to have both Flock of Doom and Enbeebling Foe, and a Grey Seer rebel seemed to use two different spells in a video despite being level 1.
*Possibly troublesome is that the "extra army upkeep" penalty is an insane 15%, so swarms of weak units doesn't look viable.

Edit:
Skavenblight has been added as a custom battle map, pretty much confirming it will be in Mortal Empires.

Edit 2:
Apparently been confirmed in a stream that Mortal Empires will not give game 1 races Rites. It's also been confirmed on Reddit that game 1 races won't be usable in custom battle or MP until Mortal Empires.

Edit 3: Launch! A few notes from a quick check:
*Burning Head is now a wind spell, making it more faithful to the tabletop game and more reliable.
*"The Dreaded Thirteenth" spell (used by Grey-seers) now summons Stormvermin--it summoned Deathrunners in pre-release footage.
*Units now default to running with move orders--can be changed in the options menu.
*Plague Priests have a new spell that wasn't in the tabletop game.

Edit 4:
Some general thoughts after playing for a while:
*Magic feels very strong and more impactful than game 1, and the ability to "aim" breath and wind spells makes them much more useful, and Wizard Lords are now actually better with magic than regular spellcasters--they only need to spend 1 skill point to gain the "overcast" version of a spell, and the second lowers the magic cost for the spell. It also appears only Lords can gain Arcane Conduit now. Actually, if anything buff and debuff spells may now be too weak compared to damage spells.
*Quests seem less annoying so far, and more worth doing.
*In general the skill trees seem better done, with the skills improving your elite units no longer locked behind the earlier ones--instead the second half of the Red tree gives bonuses to units with 7 or more experience levels.

Some specific Skaven/Clan Mors thoughts:
*The game claims Clan Mors has a hard start but I don't see it yet--Queek is ludicrously powerful against early game enemies--I got lucky and received a Potion of Toughness making him close to invulnerable--and his Warpfire thrower does a great job of smashing up infantry (even very heavily armored units take good damage from them--they aren't technically armor piercing but the sheer amount of damage they do makes up for it). However, I haven't fought any of the nearby Lizardman tribes yet so once I have dinosurs stomping on my ratmen I may change my mind. :lol:
*Raiding seems important for keeping food supplies up--each city you capture requires you to have even more food, so in theory you can't sit around too long--in practice you can still raid yourself and get even more food wiping out the rebels. It also seems you can also get a good amount of food per turn from settlements with the "Pastures" resource, so they're a good priority for a Skaven faction.
*Loyalty doesn't seem too hard to manage, at least early on. My first second Lord started with 2 loyalty and it went up to a stable level giving them a magic item and recruiting their starting units. Winning a few battles pushed it up to 9. According to the description lords rebel when Loyalty hits 0 so it's not like the ROTK games where you don't know if you're safe or not.
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