Total War Warhammer

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Re: Total War Warhammer

Unread postby LiuBeiwasGreat » Fri Sep 29, 2017 12:19 pm

So, good news! Skaven aren't overpowered! Or more to the point I just suck with them! :lol:

I like them I really do but the Lizardmen are just kicking my butt left and right (playing on normal heh)
When fighting elves I can pull a victory from a losing battle but Lizard men have a nasty habit of occasionally not breaking and just grind my forces down again and again.

The high elves have begun their first ritual and I used the majority of my money to send the biggest intervention force I could and that force got slaughtered so I guess I can do squat about that now. I cannot start my own first ritual because I am barely holding off the Lizard men and if Chaos come I am just screwed :P

I may have to restart the game and try to suck less heh.
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Re: Total War Warhammer

Unread postby Gray Riders » Fri Sep 29, 2017 4:19 pm

LiuBeiwasGreat wrote:So, good news! Skaven aren't overpowered! Or more to the point I just suck with them! :lol:

I like them I really do but the Lizardmen are just kicking my butt left and right (playing on normal heh)
When fighting elves I can pull a victory from a losing battle but Lizard men have a nasty habit of occasionally not breaking and just grind my forces down again and again.

The high elves have begun their first ritual and I used the majority of my money to send the biggest intervention force I could and that force got slaughtered so I guess I can do squat about that now. I cannot start my own first ritual because I am barely holding off the Lizard men and if Chaos come I am just screwed :P

I may have to restart the game and try to suck less heh.

Are you playing as Mors or Pestilens?

You may not have to restart. If the AI gets to the end of the ritual race you apparently get a quest battle for one last chance to stop them, and most people say the battle's pretty easy.

Saurus are definitely very strong with terrifying damage, good attack/defense, good armor, and massive health per model. I haven't fought the lizard-things in campaign yet but I've run some custom battle tests and even the mighty Saurus melt if you can hit them with Warpfire Throwers, and your huge number advantage makes it easier to tie them down for a flank. Yes, the Warpfire will slaughter your men, too, if you fire at a thin line instead of a blob. That's what those cheap Skavenslaves are for. Firing uphill lowers how much you hit your own men, so that's another great reason to deploy on the high ground.

Properly used magic does great damage--all those aimable Breath and Wind spells do incredible damage to engaged enemy lines that can't dodge or do anything but take the spell lengthwise. For Ruin you can form a defensive line and let the enemy infantry bundle up, than carefully aim an overcast "Crack's Call" down their line. Warp Lightning is very cheap but does good damage, too. Scorch is similar to Crack's Call but does less damage (but the line seems to go further--it's probably better against Elves or other lower-durability enemies).
For Plague Magic, Plague itself works very well against blobbed up enemies, too. The overcast version does great damage against engaged lines that can't run from the lengthy effect--when the enemy has a bunch of units bunched together the effect is even better. Wither is also good for lowering the enemy's armor and Blessed with Filth can slow down their kill speed and is very cheap. Pestilent Breath is very good damage for it's price, too.
Dreaded Thirteen's explosion (the explosion hits on the circle when targeting) does very high damage, and now the enemy has a unit of Stormvermin entering the map on top of them...
Also remember you can use Menace Below to tie up a bunch of their units in a blob then bombard it with magic/artillery.

There IS a topic on Reddit I should note with one user noting that Lizardmen counter Skaven pretty well, since their incredibly killy infantry breaks the low morale low health Skaven quite efficently. Main suggestion I see there is poisoned Gutter Runners to skirmish and drag their units around the map.
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Re: Total War Warhammer

Unread postby LiuBeiwasGreat » Fri Sep 29, 2017 8:11 pm

I am playing as Queek, I managed to end the back and forth trading of the newest city I captured and then accepted the Lizardmen's request for peace so I can rebuild. I need to make a couple more armies so I can start my ritual. The High Elves finished theirs and most likely the Lizard men will finish theirs before I can even start mine.

A quest battle to stop them from auto winning is a relief to hear as there is little chance that I will catch up as I am having a rough time holding the line.

I started a High Elf campaign and it seems so much easier, the initial Dark Elf holdings are easy enough to break, only lost one army to them before I drove them all off. Then I am just surrounded by other High Elf factions that I was able to open trade with (most of them, some are just jerks for no reason)
I went north and finished off the northern Dark Elves and I am just now trying to secure the entire island. Finished my first ritual before anyone else, though I think everyone else will finish theirs as well, the intervention armies are rather terrible. They have good units in them but they tend to melt against the AI's defenses. Waste of money.

Debating on starting another campaign with the Lizardmen or just trying to continue with Skaven, I like them but dang are they weak.
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Re: Total War Warhammer

Unread postby Gray Riders » Sat Sep 30, 2017 2:15 am

So I fought the Lizies as Queek. This is on Hard so it might not apply on higher difficulties, but I've beaten Kroq-Gar and pushed him right out of his capital--he only has a single minor settlement I sacked and than forced him to pay me to end the war.

I really suggest playing at half battle speed. You need to micromanage running around to best handle the Saurus--they're stronger, you have to be faster and smarter. In the end my Night Runners (Gutter Runners would be far better if you can get them--I suspect they have upgraded accuracy and quite possibly melee attack speed because they do far more damage than their stats suggest both up close and at range. Edit--modding tools have updated, and Gutter Runners do have an accuracy bonus over Night Runners) were essential--they don't often get tons of kills but they tire enemy units by kiting them around, and then they can charge in from behind after the Clanrats engage them. Saurus keep fighting long after most units flee--someone at CA really loved these guys since their morale was improved quite significantly from the tabletop game--but a tired, surrounded Saurus whose general is dead still runs away eventually.

Edit: Economy tip: Trade is a lot more effective than in the first game. The AI seems to accept them more quickly but the amount of trade goods you can sell has been roughly doubled from the first and scales up farther--in Warhammer I the most was factions with 10 or more regions buying 12 of each good--in Warhammer II a 10 region actions buys 24, and scales up to 24 regions where you can sell them 40.
It's definitely worth sending gifts to a few factions for trade--if you're playing Skaven I suggest making contact with Dark Elf factions, who don't hate you as much and are open to trade.
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Re: Total War Warhammer

Unread postby LiuBeiwasGreat » Tue Oct 03, 2017 2:27 pm

Well, I managed to get a bit further in my Skaven game, pushed took out the Last Defenders, and then the yellow Lizardmen group out to consolidate southern Africa (don't know the official name of the continent :lol: )
Managed to finally get my first ritual done, and my economy has stablized a bit, can't get anyone to trade with me as everyone hates me :lol:

Took a break from Skaven and started a Lizard man and it is like night and day. It is so much easier to make money and I am steam rolling the Skaven towns around me :lol: I think I am going to stick with Lizardmen for a time. :D During my first ritual the chaos armies gave me a bit of trouble due to their mobility but yeah this is so much easier heh.
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Re: Total War Warhammer

Unread postby Gray Riders » Tue Oct 03, 2017 3:55 pm

LiuBeiwasGreat wrote:Well, I managed to get a bit further in my Skaven game, pushed took out the Last Defenders, and then the yellow Lizardmen group out to consolidate southern Africa (don't know the official name of the continent :lol: )
Managed to finally get my first ritual done, and my economy has stablized a bit, can't get anyone to trade with me as everyone hates me :lol:

Elven Colonies are worth lots of money, and even though Skaven have the worst climate penalty with many of them, the Skaven economy is based off percentage boosts so the "bad climate" penalty is less painful for them than other races--percentage boosts are additive, not multiplicative. So the +60% from the first tier economy building more then offsets the -50%. Those three islands to the south are a cashcow that can bring in over 3,000 gold per turn once they're built up. Plus each Elven Colony raises the income of your ports factionwide.

You might need a pretty strong army to wrench those islands from their owner, depending on when you go. I went pretty late and they had a stack on each island so I had several big battles (I sent two stacks and knocked them off in turn), but the rewards were very worth it.
Edit: Also, generic Warlords can get a skill at rank 13 that greatly improves income to ALL settlements, factionwide. It only improves the "main structure", but those Elven colonies make tons from the main structure.

In short, enslave-conquer inferior furless Elf-things colonies for profit.

Edit:
Some notes:
*I wonder if some of the first game's ranged units that also go hand to hand in a pinch (Quarellers, Arrer Boyz) will gain the Lothern Sea Guard's double dipping with stat bonuses?
*I've seen a few people suspect the Death Globe Bombardiers will get nered--they do absurd damage if you park them behind the lines and let them keep throwing--they're aim is pretty good so against those thick blobs they'll blow the enemy units to pieces well before the friendly fire wipes your own troops out. On the other hand using Skavenslaves to pin an elite enemy and blowing both apart is a legitimate Skaven tactic.
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Re: Total War Warhammer

Unread postby LiuBeiwasGreat » Wed Oct 11, 2017 3:29 am

So I finished the game with Lizard men, I had to play that last mission several times kept getting my butt kicked. A small army of Skaven, then a High Elf army, a Dark Elf army, then a final Skaven army. Man that wasn't fun. Banged my head against the wall.

Cannot imagine a domination victory, map is just so huge. Wiping out all the factions works take forever.

I also can confirm that after you wipe out the main faction of a race the secondary groups can still trigger rituals with the vortex.
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Re: Total War Warhammer

Unread postby Gray Riders » Wed Oct 11, 2017 2:31 pm

An interview on "Mortal Empires".
https://www.totalwar.com/blog/mortal-em ... n-roxburgh
*Queek is moving to Karag Orrud (which I ironically captured last night in my campaign as Mors). It's a minor settlement in the Vortex campaign but it may be a capital in the Mortal Empires--too early to say. It means he'll probably be fighting Dwarfs and Greenskins instead of Lizardmen and Elves in the early game.
*Teclis is moving to the Tower of Stars--he's now next to Skaven and Vampires. They say it'll be a tricky start but I don't see the super-powerful Elf units having too much trouble with either type of enemy early on. We'll see.
*Looks like a large chunk of the Vortex map will be gone.
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Re: Total War Warhammer

Unread postby LiuBeiwasGreat » Fri Oct 20, 2017 11:24 pm

Queek will have an objective like the dlc dwarves and goblins in taking Karak eight peaks. I wonder what kind of penalty and perks he will have.
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Re: Total War Warhammer

Unread postby Gray Riders » Sat Oct 21, 2017 12:16 am

LiuBeiwasGreat wrote:Queek will have an objective like the dlc dwarves and goblins in taking Karak eight peaks. I wonder what kind of penalty and perks he will have.

A livestream shows it's just -2 public order. Combined with Skaven's food mechanic letting him get a level 4 major settlement the first time he conquers a capital outside his starting province and I'm expecting Mr. Headtaker to have a much easier time then Skarsnik or Belegar.

https://www.reddit.com/r/totalwar/comme ... p_penalty/
Someone here provides a link and timestamp. Also confirms Skavenblight seems to start under Clan Skryre.

What I find funny is the Skaven's racial capital isn't controlled by a playable faction. I feel we're almost definitely getting Ikit Claw pretty soon.

*
I got to the "steamroller" phase of my Mors game and started as new one as Teclis. High Elf troops are insanely good. Teclis himself is sort of odd--I feel like his grab bag of mixed spells isn't too great. Flaming Sword of Rhun and Net are good but aside from that they feel kind of okay, and his bound spell isn't [i]that[i/] strong since it isn't the upgraded version of the spell. Having Arcane Conduit, Life Leech AND Wild Heart means he can generate magic very well, though!
But I feel like he'd be a better caster with all High Magic instead (in the tabletop game he can either choose to know every High spell or you can pick 1 from each regular Lore). I may make a mod for that so players can go with that version of him instead.

Edit: A Mortal Empires stream has released some information though some may change before release.
*Queek's bonus for taking Karak Eight Peaks is +loyalty and +2 Lord recruit ranks.
*Old World Races still use the same "Red" skills as game 1 but with the numbers nerfed to game 2 standards. That's...really bad for the old races. Worse, they apparently can't take the "Immortal" skill.
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