The Last Warlord--an indie ROTK strategy game

Discussion of other Three Kingdoms games (e.g. Destiny of an Emperor and Dynasty Tactics) and other games by Koei (e.g. Samurai Warriors).

Re: The Last Warlord--an indie ROTK strategy game

Unread postby Sakae Wu » Wed Jan 03, 2018 12:46 am

Yeesh, Yuan Shao is out of control. As fast as he's moving you might not have time to get that alliance :o
Two strong victories for you but just a bad break with the flooding.
Hopefully 197 will be better for Lu Bu and gang.

Enjoying the reports Gray Riders, thanks for taking the time to post these.
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Re: The Last Warlord--an indie ROTK strategy game

Unread postby Gray Riders » Wed Jan 03, 2018 1:34 am

One interesting thing is the in-game "tech list" has a large number of technologies that aren't researchable yet. Some are interesting--one makes Free Officers automatically join you but lowers the loyalty of noble officers. There are some other things in the game that don't seem to be working yet--for instance the foreign tribes are on the map but I haven't seen them do anything, and there are "yellow turban" units in the unit list.

Zyzyfer wrote:Some interesting things about this are that you can play as a bad ruler but still kick butt. And you also can usually abuse the high priority placed on your commander to do weird things like, for instance - if he's got decent enough but not Lu Bu levels of War - to trigger a huge string of duels during battles.

There seem to be less trash rulers than Koei's series, at least, since there are lots of officers and more of the randoms are decent. Shi Xie, for instance, has a decent number of officers and cities so he could expand into Wu in the early scenarios without too much trouble.

I must admit, I am worried about Yuan Shao's expansion. He is probably overpowered in this scenario.

Remember how for the X series we were trying to stop Yuan Shao from sucking? That will not be an issue with this game.

Yuan Shao is ridiculously powerful in 195. He starts with five cities, fifty officers, and nearly one hundred thousand troops from the scenario start--only guy even close is Liu Zhang with 65,000 men, and he has less than half as many officers.

He also has some great military officers. This game seems to mostly use historical death dates--Taishi Ci is dead at the start of Chi Bi, for isntance--so Qu Yi is alive in 195 and he's a powerhouse in this game, probably Yuan Shao's best general--91 archer skill, 83 infantry, he's better than guys like Sun Ce or Zhang He in battle. Yan Liang and Wen Chou are also rocking 89 and 86 cavalry respectively, and unlike Lu Bu Yuan Shao has enough cities to afford plenty of horses for his cavalry commanders.
Yuan Shao himself is actually really good commander, too with 86 archer and 82 infantry. He's actually a better commander than Sun Jian or Lu Meng (a lot of Wu officers seem to have gotten worse than expected stats though Zhou Tai is a dueling powerhouse).

He has no opposition anywhere nearby and can easily flatten everyone in Hebei and the Central Plains. By the time Sun Ce's taken Jiangdong Yuan Shao can easily have become a juggernaut.
The devs have mentioned the modding tools will include a scenario editor--I wouldn't be surprised if someone tries to tone Yuan Shao down a bit in this scenario.

Conversely, Guandu looks more lopsided than you'd expect in Cao Cao's favor. Yuan Shao starts with a slightly larger army but Cao Cao has 15 cities to Yuan Shao's 8 and they're better developed.

Also, if you can only recruit about 3,000 troops per season at the moment, does that mean your losses are about 3 seasons worth of troops then? XIII was annoying for these drafting limits, but they at least attempted to balance it with the wounded stuff. If a couple of battles set your recruitment back 3 seasons, it seems to suggest that rapid early expansion may be preferable if you have the officer corps to do so.

There's a wounded troops system, but the rate of dead-to-wounded seems much more in favor of "dead" than Koei's tend to. I remember ROTK IX was about 50/50, comparing how much light cavalry I have left with losses I'd say about 1/3rd of casualties recover in this game.

I looked on the steam forums and there's a post saying to ignore domestics early on and rush a city or two--at this point I definitely think that's the right move if you have the officers for it.

Sakae Wu wrote:Yeesh, Yuan Shao is out of control. As fast as he's moving you might not have time to get that alliance :o
Two strong victories for you but just a bad break with the flooding.
Hopefully 197 will be better for Lu Bu and gang.

Enjoying the reports Gray Riders, thanks for taking the time to post these.

Yuan Shu's sudden attack was a strategic disaster, even though we won--it stopped me from taking Chen Liu and let Cao Cao take Wan and occupy one of the gates around Luoyang (they seem to count as cities, though ones that can't develop much). Still I don't think it's hopeless. If we take another city or two and win Yuan Shao over we might be okay.

Thank you! I'm glad you're enjoying the reports.

Edit:
Zyzyfer wrote:Battles seem interesting, but with only the screenshots to view, would you say that any tactics stand out as overpowered/underpowered?

Compared to, say, ROTK XI, I use regular attacks a lot more for a few reasons:
*You get 100 "will" to spend on them and I've seen no way to replenish it in battle yet.
*A number of them don't really seem to do more damage than a regular attack. The "Intrude" I kept using might actually do less, but it lowers enemy morale and you don't take counter damage, for instance, and it can sometimes force a duel (there doesn't actually seem to be an option to challenge enemies to a duel normally). The success rate on the strategy types also seems fairly low (30s a lot of the time from what I've seen).
*Many have terrain requirements. Cavalry's charge runs through two enemy units, does a lot of damage, and can confuse, but it seems the cavalry, both targets, AND the space on the other side need to be on flat terrain, for instance, and it can leave your cavalry unit very vulnerable afterwards, which is especially bad with expensive to replace cavalry.
Rockslide does pretty good damage and can confuse, but you need a height advantage.
I haven't seen every strategy yet, though. For all I know Blunder will end up breaking everything.

Edit: Hahaha, yeah. I'm not sure we can win at this point, we probably waited too long to attack Cao Cao. Liu Biao has started taking Cao Cao's territory from behind so no matter what we do we're stuck between Yuan Shao and him, and Cao Cao's defenses are a bit too strong for us to break after the losses we took fighting Yuan Shu.

Might be better to start over with a different ruler and better understanding of how the game should be played at the start, but I'll let you all decide if I do that or not.
If you'd like to start over, please choose from the following:
*Liu Bei (195)
*Sun Ce (195)
*Cao Cao (195)
*Yuan Shao (190)
*Dong Zhuo (190)--"cakewalk that lets us learn late game mechanics for sure" option.
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Re: The Last Warlord--an indie ROTK strategy game

Unread postby Zyzyfer » Thu Jan 04, 2018 7:02 am

Hah. That's a pretty harsh learning curve, although Lu Bu around that time period is usually going to be a pretty difficult game - I was surprised and yet not surprised you picked him though.

Part of me wants to say pick Dong Zhuo so you have room to breathe and test out random stuff. But also if 190 Yuan Shao or 195 Sun Ce have ample room to expand, they are good (certainly more interesting) choices as well. 195 Liu Bei is basically 195 Lu Bu all over again, and Cao Cao in the mid-190s is usually better in the hands of players with a bit of experience in that particular game, since he has freedom to both do well, and crash hard.
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Re: The Last Warlord--an indie ROTK strategy game

Unread postby Sun Fin » Thu Jan 04, 2018 10:07 am

My vote is for Sun Ce! :D
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Re: The Last Warlord--an indie ROTK strategy game

Unread postby Sakae Wu » Thu Jan 04, 2018 1:53 pm

I would go with Sun Ce as well. I think you can learn more sometimes if you have some challenges.
Might be a little more fun than DZ.

I was surprised how fast the AI can launch an attack after capturing a city. Even in RoTK X they usually had to rebuild defenses, raise order etc, before deploying.
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Re: The Last Warlord--an indie ROTK strategy game

Unread postby Gray Riders » Fri Jan 05, 2018 4:34 am

I noticed Ling Tong doesn't seem to be in the game (yet--they're presumably adding officers over time).
I also found a trick. The waiter has a new rumor whenever you reload, even if he gave you one this turn so you can save and reload then save and get him to reveal officers in your territory all in one turn, heh. Hopefully they'll fix that though finding officers in your own regions is a bigger pain then I think it should be.

Zyzyfer wrote:Hah. That's a pretty harsh learning curve, although Lu Bu around that time period is usually going to be a pretty difficult game - I was surprised and yet not surprised you picked him though.

I made some pretty big mistakes andprobably would have failed with pretty much every one city ruler (except Sun Jian whose got a very secure start), but I think Lu Bu won't be too hard with experience. If I'd focused on building up an armored cavalry group early on I think I may have beaten Cao Cao in 196.

Part of me wants to say pick Dong Zhuo so you have room to breathe and test out random stuff. But also if 190 Yuan Shao or 195 Sun Ce have ample room to expand, they are good (certainly more interesting) choices as well. 195 Liu Bei is basically 195 Lu Bu all over again, and Cao Cao in the mid-190s is usually better in the hands of players with a bit of experience in that particular game, since he has freedom to both do well, and crash hard.

I'm not sure how Liu Bei in 195 will turn out in terms of difficulty. He has good domestics, two cities, and Guangling nearby is free to take. Xia Pi itself is pretty big and very safe early on--Kong Rong is a wimp, so you can focus on Yuan Shu.
That said, Liu Bei starts out lacking in good military officers and you could end up having Mi Zhu leading your cavalry (he's actually okay at it)--Liao Hua and Zhou Cang are in Xiao Pei, though, but because of how searching works (you assign one person to an entire region and they run around) you don't know when they'll be found, although there's a trick. Plus Yuan Shao dislikes him and he's the scenarios half-ton gorilla with lots of troops, officers, and technologies.

Sun Ce, however, has clearly won the vote (which I kind of expected but figured Cao Cao had a decent chance). He only has one city but he starts with lots of resources in it compared to Lu Bu, excellent domestic officers, and comparatively weak opposition--our main concern is that Liu Yao has two cities but his officers should be clearly inferior, aside from Taishi Ci. Yuan Shu is good friends with us so I'm not expecting problems with him early on.
Here are the stat screens of some of our prominent officers:

Sun Ce himself:
https://steamuserimages-a.akamaihd.net/ ... 0B16DB903/

Zhou Yu:
https://steamuserimages-a.akamaihd.net/ ... 8467A1FFB/
I think I mentioned Wu officers seem to get shorted slightly on unit stats? Sun Ce and Zhou Yu are much worse at land battles then I expected, and I don't think there's a single Wu officer with 90 or above in a land unit stat--they don't in 207 at least. Most of their top officers are actually worse than Li Jue and Guo Si, who are surprisingly good. Sun Ce himself is actually a worse unit commander than Yuan Shao.
It may have been done to avoid their high Naval stats from inflating their average Military and therefore their value as your Commander councilor, but I think it'd make more sense if they were worse with cavalry in general, with a few exceptions like Taishi Ci and Sun Ce himself. Well, we'll deal.

Cheng Pu:
https://steamuserimages-a.akamaihd.net/ ... DAD50A03B/
Above average commander but he's good at commerce.

Han Dang (Not shown--special unit access "Wu's Royal Guard", a very good infantry unit):
https://steamuserimages-a.akamaihd.net/ ... F833D2F0E/
Decent commander, but the Royal Guard should be pretty good when we unlock them.

Huang Gai:
https://steamuserimages-a.akamaihd.net/ ... 69EF5A118/
Pretty good commander.

Sun Quan:
https://steamuserimages-a.akamaihd.net/ ... 01C6D95FC/
He's an unexpectedly good commander. Only unit tactic he's missing is mounted archery. Also very good at domestics. Good all-rounder. We'll leave him to protect Lu Jiang while Sun Ce is out conquering.

Zhou Tai:
https://steamuserimages-a.akamaihd.net/ ... 3D71A929F/
For some reason packing the Blunder tactic. Also has Rockfall.

Zhang Zhao:
https://steamuserimages-a.akamaihd.net/ ... 8E008B378/
Amazing domestics officer. Actually an okay-ish commander if you're desperate.

Zhang Hong:
https://steamuserimages-a.akamaihd.net/ ... 74C1BEC05/
Surprisingly average domestics officer. A bit dissapointed in the other Zhang. His high calm could make him useful marching out with someone like Zhou Tai.

We're missing Lu Fan for some reason--he might be hidden in Lu Jiang.


Strategic Overview:
We're going to avoid the mistakes we made as Lu Bu--early effort will be on securing Jiang Dong rather than building up Lu Jiang, though we won't completely ignore that--it'd be a shame to waste Zhang Zhao's amazing stats--but we'll only put a bit of gold into it. Aside from Security we'll just put 50 gold into commerce and farming. We also won't start spying--the information isn't too useful early on considering the cost. We'll still Search Lu Jiang because I'm hoping Lu Su and Lu Fan are here--the former is one of the best Commerce officers in the game and really good all-around.

The other thing I learned last time is that light infantry are made of wet tissue paper, so early on we're going to unlock Heavy Infantry and start replacing our offensive infantry units with them when we can. Aside from much higher defense, especially against ranged (vital, since I already mentioned that your commander is an arrow magnet) they also have slightly more attack than light infantry. We also want battering rams.

Note that we can dismiss existing troops, but although they rejoin the population they do not rejoin the recruitment pool, which is unfortunate--we can't upgrade our existing light infantry into heavy infantry. This has been suggested on steam but the dev team is unsure if it will be implemented.

We can have Heavy Infantry in 4 months so it won't take too long--that's enough time to get 5-6,000 ready for Sun Ce's personal unit before we attack Liu Yao. However, our first battle is going to be a naval battle, and in the second our battering rams have very high ranged defense already. So we'll research the first warship upgrade--"destroyers", which should improve our naval power greatly.
(Some people have asked the devs to use names from the period for the ships instead of modern terms).

Light infantry should work okay for our defensive units since we'll have the walls to help.
Researching at this should take exactly a year, at which point we'll attack Jian Ye and hopefully capture it. Liu Yao's officers aren't much for naval combat--aside from Taishi Ci they're not much in general--so we should hopefully crush them on the waves easily with out destroyers and then take the city. We can then finish him off at Yuzhang at our leisure. We'll tackle it later--it's more than a month's march for Lu Jiang. Attacking it would leave us vulnerable so we'll take Jian Ye, Wu, and Hui Ji first, as those cities are much closer together.

Wu is overflowing with good bow officers so we'll want crossbowmen eventually. They have only slightly more attack than light archers and no extra defenses, but they have extra range, which should prove invaluable. They're a lower priority, though.

We also want spearmen eventually--if google translate is even slightly right I think they have a bonus against cavalry, which we'll want--Wu has an okay numnber of 70s cavalry officers but we won't be able to compete with the north in cavalry power. We'll unlock them after crossbows--early game we'll probably hit Liu Biao before going north but I'll probably put it up to vote when the time comes.

So our research plan: We'll start researching Gathering, then get Destroyers and Battering rams, then start going for heavy infantry after we take Jian Ye. Depending on how our finances look at that point we might start going for crossbows.

Our strategic plan--unite Jiang Dong. We want to take Jian Ye, Wu, Hui Ji, Yu Zhang, Jian An, Yi Zhou (an island in the south), and Guang Ling. This will give us eight cities with only four on the border, and hopefully a wealth of officers to recruit.

Year 195
Here's Lu Jiang's stats and features:
https://steamuserimages-a.akamaihd.net/ ... 6939AC426/

https://steamuserimages-a.akamaihd.net/ ... 3589891A2/

For domestics we put Sun Ce himself on Safety at 200 gold. Sun Jing takes farming, Zhang Zhao takes commerce, and Sun Quan takes Flood Control, all at 50 gold.

We put Zhou Yu on spying, but he'll be recalled when battle comes. 100 gold for now. Zhang Hong is sent to Search.

In March Zhou Yu gets out spy network into Shou Chun; Lady Wu Guotai is sent to Search.

Later that month Liu Yao sents an envoy; we deny them.

In July our spies reach Jiang Xia. Zhou Yu is really good at this.
Sun Yu is tasked with searching the city.

In august we hear an odd rumor...
https://steamuserimages-a.akamaihd.net/ ... 498851F2D/
...is there another less famous Li Ru or is Dong Zhuo's tactician running around as a zombie?

Next month Sun Yu finds Gan Ning as a free officer! We immediately send Lady Qiao (I am not sure which--they're not using the standard "Da" and "Xiao" qualifiers) to hire him.

Perhaps even better, the sage Zuo Ci offers to "increase the age" (probably lifespan) of one of our officers. I choose Sun Ce himself.

October, the employment attempt failed. We can't try again until the officer we sent gets back, so we'll send another out in November (if someone else hasn't hired him, but being Wu compatible it'll probably take them a while).

In November Jiang Qin encounters a pirate leader. They must fight.
https://steamuserimages-a.akamaihd.net/ ... 5A74E9A27/
It goes rather poorly for the pirate.
https://steamuserimages-a.akamaihd.net/ ... F601F89A0/
Gan Ning has apparently decided to move to Xin Ye. Lady Qiao chases him down, but Xin Ye is outside our spy range so we may be unable to hire him.

The waiter tells us that Zhou Cang is in Shou Chun. We can try to hire him but the odds are low. We'll throw some otherwise not busy officers to slowly butter him up.
Meanwhile, thanks to Zhang Zhao's hard work the Iron Industry in Lu Jiang activates, making siege weapons 15% cheaper. Nice!

197
Lu Jiang has improved significantly last year thanks to our excellent domestic officers, even spending only 50 gold we've more than doubles commerce!

Sadly I was right and we can't get Gan Ning, but happily Lu Fan wanders into the city. We send someone to recruit him. Yuan Shu takes Xia Pi from Liu Bei.

In February Lu Fan turns us down. The good news is we can now try to hire Gan Ning again. Zuo Ci returns and enhances Sun Ce's life again.
We finish researching Destroyers. It's time to attack Jian Ye; Zhu Zhi is temporarily assigned to Spy so Zhou Yu can join the assault.

Order of Battle:
Sun Ce, 5,500 light infantry, battering ram, destroyer
Zhou Yu, 5,500 light archers, destroyer
Huang Gai, 5,500 light archers
Cheng Pu, 5,500 light infantry, battering ram
Han Dang, 4,822 light cavalry,

I was only able to assign 2 destroyers and 2 battering rams--my guess is it is connected to higher levels of research as there are several levels of each ship type. Not sure about the ram.

As expected we meet Liu Yao on the yangtze.
https://steamuserimages-a.akamaihd.net/ ... C77C14E56/
Liu Yao initially sends his own unit into the river while the rest stay on dry land. We chase Liu Yao down to punish him for this mistake.

Realizing his error, Taishi Ci leads the rest into the ocean. I send Sun Ce and Han Dang to chase Liu Yao down while Zhou Yu leads a picket against the others.
https://steamuserimages-a.akamaihd.net/ ... 7C16BD697/

Zhou Yu tricks Taishi Ci and Ze Rong into attacking one another. Damage is light but they both lose morale.

The enemy is far worse at sea than us--they take very heavy casualties. Cheng Pu and Huang Gai sink Taishi Ci's ships. I decide to send Sun Ce to join the main battle--instead of winning quickly we'll destroy as much of Liu Yao's army here as possible before the siege.

Sun Ce attempts to send a fire boat at Fan Neng but misses and hits Huang Gai's ships instead (apparently that can happen). No more fire boats except in the opening volleys.

The enemy is taking 2 or 3 to 1 damage from most of my units when I attack them--it's more even when they attack us so I suspect the attacking unit has a bonus. Zhou Yu is around 10 to 1 damage in his favor. He's a naval god.

Cheng Pu sinks Ze Rong's fleet. Huang Gai sinks Fan Neng's. Zhou Yu sinks Zhang Ying's.
https://steamuserimages-a.akamaihd.net/ ... 39148534E/
Liu Yao's ships are surrounded. He's beyond doomed. Zhou Yu finishes him off.

Four to one casualties.
https://steamuserimages-a.akamaihd.net/ ... CA6C3296F/
In march Lu Fan joins us. Yuan Shu occupies Xin Ye so we may miss Gan Ning again.

We reach Jian Ye--Liu Yao can only musted 1372 men to defend it after the disaster at sea.
https://steamuserimages-a.akamaihd.net/ ... 246FF106C/
We approach the walls. Han Dang's unit dismounts into light infantry so they can climb the walls if needed (yes, you can do that!).

Zhou Yu and Huang Gai shoot him down. We take some losses from the defensive structures, but not severe ones. Jian Ye is ours!
https://steamuserimages-a.akamaihd.net/ ... F16B996E0/
We have three options for the victorious army:
*Settle--the troops and officers will enter Jian Ye. If your ruler is present he'll return to the capital instead.
*Standby--the army remains on the map. We can send it off to attack another city. Note that armies can only be redirected when they don't currently have orders.
*Return--go back to the city it deployed from.

A handful of Jian Ye's wounded troops join us. Sun Ce's army has nearly three thousand wounded--we lost around eight thousand troops in total but gained a huge city and crippled our nearest main enemy. I call it a win!
Sun Ce is promoted by the court for his victory.
https://steamuserimages-a.akamaihd.net/ ... EE70AC883/

Jian Ye is a big city with tons of potential:
https://steamuserimages-a.akamaihd.net/ ... 47798A12E/
https://steamuserimages-a.akamaihd.net/ ... CFBAE3B4E/
Including two special units. We'll eventually move the capital here but for now our main force will return to Lu Jiang. Next time I'll assign a governor and some officers to Jian Ye, research Heavy Infantry, and try to defeat Yan Baihu and Wang Lang!
Taishi Ci was taken prisoner in the sea battle and Zhang Ying at Jian Ye.

Bonus:
Special units
Here's a list of some of the many special units in the game, recruitable in only certain cities and connected to certain officers. There are a number of cases where I'm not sure what officers a unit is aligned with. I left out things like "yellow turban" versions of units (which are trash--worse than "light" troops) and units associated with various tribes, as they may not be recruitable.

Wu's Royal Guard--Basically heavy infantry, but a little better in every way. Recruited from Jian Ye. Associated with Han Dang.

Shu's Royal Guard--Odd infantry unit. Same melee defense as Heavy Infantry but much lower ranged defense--much higher attack, though and they might be good against cavalry since they require spear research. Recruited at Yong An. Associated with Chen Dao.

Tiger Knight--terrifying cavalry, massive attack and very high defenses. Recruited from Xu Chang and associated with Cao Chun and Cao Xiu.

Flying Bear Horsemen--elite light cavalry from An Ding. Third highest attack in the game, but only slightly better defenses than regular light cavalry. Associated with Li Jue, Zhang Ji, Fan Chou, Zhang Xiu, and Guo Si--basically Dong Zhuo's Liang loyalists. Dong himself doesn't get them, oddly.

Northwestern Armored Knight--the Liang heavy cavalry, a worse version of Tiger Knights. Available from Tian Shui and Wuwei--although it looks like you need to own Tian Shui to recruit them from Wuwei. Very powerful--fourth highest attack and a bit better armored than regular armored knights. Lots of officers are associated with this unit--Hua Xiong, Xu Rong, Han Sui, Yan Xing (called Yan Hang in the game), Ma Teng, and Ma Chao. Pang De, oddly, doesn't get them.

Heavy Spearmen--powerful infantry, same melee defense (and slightly worse ranged defense) as Heavy Infantry but with much higher attack, and probably good against cavalry. Recruted from Pu Yang. Associated with Gao Shun.

Elite Ranger--Danyang soldiers, recruitable from Guangling and Jian Ye. Have better attack than Heavy Infantry but their defenses are only slightly better than light infantry. Associated with Cao Bao, Xu Dan (what, you don't remember Xu Dan?), Liu Bei, and Taishi Ci.

Chu-ko-nu Squad--deadly ranged unit, the highest ranged damage and slightly better defense than light archers. Note that unlike the generic "crossbow" unit they have the same range as light archers. Recruited from Cheng Du or Zi Tong. Associated with Zhuge Liang and Huang Yueying.

Elite Crossbowmen--tied for second highest ranged damage, but unlike other archers they're heavily armored. Available at Cheng Du, but I haven't found any officer associated with it. Oddly, like the Chu-ku-nu they don't have upgraded range.

White Riders--Mounted unit with extra high ranged attack--same as Elite Crossbowmen--as well as very high melee attack (same as Northwestern Armored Knights), but the same defense as regular light cavalry. Recruited at Bei Ping. Gongsun Zan's family and Zhao Yun are associated with it.

Elite Pikemen--Infantry with very high attack, it's defenses are exactly double light infantry--which is still lower than heavy infantry. Probably has a bonus against cavalry. Recruited at Zhong Shan. Associated with Zhang He, Gao Lan, and Yuan Shao.

Elite Raider--Infantry with extra high attack, but only slightly better defense than light infantry. Recruited from Nan Pi, and associated with Qu Yi.

Wuxi Warriors--the Wuling barbarians. An archer unit with good melee attack but defense is about the same as light infantry (better against ranged attacks though). Recruited from Wu Ling. I haven't seen him yet but I'd guess Shamoke is assoiated with them.

Nanman Raider--Wutugu's "rattan" troops. Highest defense of both types in the game, but same attack as regular heavy infantry. Recruited from Yong Chang. Almost certainly associated with Wutugu.

War Elephants--Highest attack and very high defense. Basically slightly stronger Tiger Knights. Recruited from Jian Ning. Probably associated with King Mulu.

Just for fun, here's Zhuge Liang's crazy stats:
https://steamuserimages-a.akamaihd.net/ ... 907C68EC0/
Last edited by Gray Riders on Fri Jan 05, 2018 7:18 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: The Last Warlord--an indie ROTK strategy game

Unread postby Zyzyfer » Fri Jan 05, 2018 9:42 am

Can't quote well, posting on mobile.

re: Lu Bu runs - I feel like in his case, he can be a wild ride so long as the player has a good grasp of the game mechanics and all. I gave him a spin in XIII in the scenario where he has Xu and had very little trouble with it. But he is usually right in the thick of things so I found picking him for your second playthrough amusing.

This Sun Ce game seems to be moving at a nice clip so far, once you have Jiangdong secure you should have room to experiment a bit. I am getting the impression that city development is something you want steadily going on in the background, rather than being a front and center priority.

I had meant to ask about what happens to troops after taking a city. So if you have a bunch of Wu Elite Guard you can sack a city and then leave them there...but can they not be transferred otherwise? It is interesting that the units are pretty much "fixed" once created, it's a departure from Koei's system.

Edit: oh and Zhuge Liang's crazy stats got cut :shock:
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Re: The Last Warlord--an indie ROTK strategy game

Unread postby Gray Riders » Fri Jan 05, 2018 1:34 pm

Zyzyfer wrote:Can't quote well, posting on mobile.

re: Lu Bu runs - I feel like in his case, he can be a wild ride so long as the player has a good grasp of the game mechanics and all. I gave him a spin in XIII in the scenario where he has Xu and had very little trouble with it. But he is usually right in the thick of things so I found picking him for your second playthrough amusing.

Not even really my second playthrough--I briefly did a few years as Yuan Shao and Sun Jian but haven't played too far as anyone.
Lu Bu seemed like an interesting "sink or swim" ruler.

This Sun Ce game seems to be moving at a nice clip so far, once you have Jiangdong secure you should have room to experiment a bit. I am getting the impression that city development is something you want steadily going on in the background, rather than being a front and center priority.

I think once you have a few cities so you can keep recruitment going it's okay to focus heavily on development for a while. In the current state of the AI I suspect once you have the defense technologies it won't be too hard to hold cities with 20-30 thousand men and decent officers. Early on your ability to provide gold and food to hire and sustain them significantly outstrips your manpower limit on new troops. Later on with more cities providing several thousand men a season and more expensive units I suspect they will change.

I had meant to ask about what happens to troops after taking a city. So if you have a bunch of Wu Elite Guard you can sack a city and then leave them there...but can they not be transferred otherwise? It is interesting that the units are pretty much "fixed" once created, it's a departure from Koei's system.

You can move move units between cities whenever you want; it's not like ROTK XIII. That said they don't move super fast so getting forces from Bei Ping to Xu Chang would take some time. Getting enough cities to have some with no other rulers bordering them should be a game changer since they can funnel reserves to the frontline so they aren't left vulnerable when they attack.
I am not certain how "special" units work so they might be stuck to the cities you can recruit them in, though I doubt it.

We'll know soon; once I've taken Jiang Dong and made Jian Ye the capital I'm having Zhang Zhao go full effort into that city so it should unlock Elite Rangers in two years or so, if I don't get bogged down.

Edit: oh and Zhuge Liang's crazy stats got cut :shock:

Fixed. This is why you don't update past eleven PM, I suppose...
The game generally made 90s in stats fairly rare, aside from maybe Combat, there seeems to be quite a few people with that. You occasionally run into surpring people with them, like Gongsun Zan having 90s cavalry.
It seems the lack of 90s is because Zhuge Liang is hoarding them for himself.

Edit: Game is leaving early access soon and the price is going up.
http://steamcommunity.com/games/577230/ ... 6313990159
Gray Riders
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Re: The Last Warlord--an indie ROTK strategy game

Unread postby Sakae Wu » Fri Jan 05, 2018 11:31 pm

Gray Riders wrote:Just for fun, here's Zhuge Liang's crazy stats:


I thought you were doing some kind of cliffhanger, so we'd have to wait anxiously for your next post :)
But yea, that guy is no joke. He's got most of the skills too! :evil:
I'm a little miffed Wu got shortchanged in some of their stats, hopefully we can do some editing down the road.
Not being able to upgrade units is a little puzzling also. I wonder if they'll change that.

I picked it up off steam today, just as they raised the price>.< But, it's still pretty reasonable I think.
I'll probably start off on easy and try to figure things out.
So far so good on your Sun Ce campaign!
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Sakae Wu
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Re: The Last Warlord--an indie ROTK strategy game

Unread postby Gray Riders » Sat Jan 06, 2018 1:41 am

Sakae Wu wrote:I thought you were doing some kind of cliffhanger, so we'd have to wait anxiously for your next post :)
But yea, that guy is no joke. He's got most of the skills too! :evil:
I'm a little miffed Wu got shortchanged in some of their stats, hopefully we can do some editing down the road.
Not being able to upgrade units is a little puzzling also. I wonder if they'll change that.

Mod tools are planned for Q1 or Q2 this year.

I picked it up off steam today, just as they raised the price>.< But, it's still pretty reasonable I think.
I'll probably start off on easy and try to figure things out.
So far so good on your Sun Ce campaign!

I think getting a second adequately defended city is huge in this game. It makes it so much easier to attack without leaving yourself vulnerable. The other good news is Yuan Shao is having a bit of trouble up north.

EDIT: Lu Bu was defeated in mid May 197. The twist is by who.
Gray Riders
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