The Last Warlord--an indie ROTK strategy game

Discussion of other Three Kingdoms games (e.g. Destiny of an Emperor and Dynasty Tactics) and other games by Koei (e.g. Samurai Warriors).

Re: The Last Warlord--an indie ROTK strategy game

Unread postby Sakae Wu » Wed Jan 10, 2018 12:52 am

Nice job! And thanks for the answers, I thought there might be some trading option I was missing.
That was a serious butt-whipping you gave Liu Bei. Is it about 3 months travel time from Wu to Xia Pi?
Also, what's your officer count now?

Gray Riders wrote:Kong Rong now has five cities.
Also I don't kno why, but Lu Bu vanished from my officer list. Some of his old officers are still sitting in Kong Rong's prison, so my guess is Kong Rong managed to hire him.
There is a good chance Lu Bu is working for Kong Rong, who is now one of the major powers.


Kong Rong is getting a little scary :shock:
It looks like he's going after Cao Cao on your map? And CC is pushing south a little.
Liu Zhang doesn't appear to be doing anything...

I'm guessing you're forgoing diplomacy/alliances. I don't blame you as it doesn't seem worth the time and cost.
Well, good luck against the 3 amigos~
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Re: The Last Warlord--an indie ROTK strategy game

Unread postby Gray Riders » Wed Jan 10, 2018 1:37 am

Sakae Wu wrote:Nice job! And thanks for the answers, I thought there might be some trading option I was missing.
That was a serious butt-whipping you gave Liu Bei. Is it about 3 months travel time from Wu to Xia Pi?
Also, what's your officer count now?

It took about a month for Liu Bei's troops to arrive, so a few turns in the battle suspended for a bit then continued after orders were given on the main map.
51 officers, still have 4 of Liu Yao's former men in prison trying to hire them.

Kong Rong is getting a little scary :shock:
It looks like he's going after Cao Cao on your map? And CC is pushing south a little.
Liu Zhang doesn't appear to be doing anything...

Quick overview of what's going on.
*Kong Rong is whupping Cao Cao's butt. Cao Cao has lost everything but Wan and Hu Lao Gate.
*Zhang Yan is holding on in Jin Yang and Luo Yang.
*Han Sui ate Ma Teng and is holding western Liang province while Li Jue is holding eastern Liang.
*Liu Zhang knocked out Zhang Lu and seems content to sit in northern Yi.
*Shi Xie has started moving into Nanzhong.
*The southern Jing governors are all still alive.
*Wang Lang took Jian An at some point; he probably won't last long once I come for him. I have Sun Quan shipping 10K troops from Lu Jiang to hold Jian Ye while my main force is off campaigning.
*Gongsun Du is holding onto his standard cities, Yuan Shao's taken everything in He Bei aside from those and Zhang Yan's territory.
*Liu Bei has Bei Hai, Xia Pi, and Guang Ling.
*Kong Rong has Ru Nan, Xu Chang, Pu Yang, Chen Liu, and Xiao Pei.
*Zhang Ji has somehow held on in Hong Nong.
*Liu Biao has Xiang Yang, Jiang Xia, Jiang Ling, Shou Chun, Xin Ye, and Yong An.

My biggest worry is getting caught in two battles at once since the autobattles don't seem to acknowledge the huge advantage the defender has in siege battles. The AI doesn't seem super agressive towards me so far, so I'm not sure how likely it is.

I'm guessing you're forgoing diplomacy/alliances. I don't blame you as it doesn't seem worth the time and cost.
Well, good luck against the 3 amigos~

After chasing Yuan Shao as Lu Bu I've given up on diplomacy for now. That siege at Wu shows that 10,000 light troops can thrash AI forces twice their size for a lot less money and hassle than making friends.

Thanks! Liu Bei's doom is a bit off since I need to crush Wang Lang.

I'm hoping Lu Meng appears soon. I know he's around in 200 since Sun Ce starts with him in that scenario.
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Re: The Last Warlord--an indie ROTK strategy game

Unread postby Zyzyfer » Wed Jan 10, 2018 1:44 am

I will have to check the images later, short reply for now though.

Gray Riders wrote:The battle continues into July...
Liu Bei I am going to hurt you for this. Lu Dai takes the lead with a small, undertrained unit of Heavy Infantry. However, our defensive siege weapons and rockfall strategems are too much for Liu Bei's lightly armored troops--the enemy archers target our ballistas, a ranged fight they can't win, his other units keep trying to find an unopposed climbing spot (which I don't give them) while they're pelted by arrows and dropped rockslides. It's a horrendous one-sided slaughter.


Nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo

I still have nightmares about the siege battles in ROTK IV, and the bolded part in particular sounds very familiar...

This does, however, answer my question of "who do I attack first after unifying Jiang Dong?" so thanks for that, Liu Bei!


rubs hands together

Excellent...

There is a good chance Lu Bu is working for Kong Rong, who is now one of the major powers.


This alone gives the game ridiculous replay value. I'm really torn after this latest update.
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Re: The Last Warlord--an indie ROTK strategy game

Unread postby Gray Riders » Wed Jan 10, 2018 2:16 am

Zyzyfer wrote:Nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo

I still have nightmares about the siege battles in ROTK IV, and the bolded part in particular sounds very familiar...

I recall reading that the siege battles are most like those from ROTK IV, and I certainly see the similarity.
That said "the AI is terrible at siege" is a problem the devs have mentioned wanting to fix. Part of it is the AI does not put much priority on research.
As I mentioned earlier, Heavy Infantry take little damage from ranged weapons--light infantry took around 500 casualties from the ballistas, heavy infantry about 100--and the various offensive siege weapons have the same ranged defense. An attacking army outfitted with heavy infantry and batterings rams should not take such horrible casualties.

This alone gives the game ridiculous replay value. I'm really torn after this latest update.

I am not entirely sure how it happened. I read that Lu Bu was gone and checked the map to see Kong Rong had wiped him out, and he's kept growing since.

The safe option is to wait for the game's next major update, I think, although the price will probably be higher then you could wait for the next steam sale.

Edit: The heavy infantry vs ballista results is interesting because it seems to suggest unit stats are proportional, which is often not true in strategy games. 50 defense takes half as much as 25.
The other thing I didn't mention is although they performed well they also showed me why someone might want elite rangers despite their notably worse defenses--heavy infantry do not manuever well, and if you need a heavy infantry unit somewhere else it isn't getting there anytime soon. You probably want your army commander as a high defense unit, though. Armored Knights are equally defensive to melee attack, but somewhat more vulnerable to ranged then Heavy Infantry. Could be a disadvantage to rulers with mostly cavalry or bow skill (as far as I can tell your ruler always has to command but for other armies you can pick whom you want) although since the secondary officer seemds to contribute full stats there are options.

I do wish we could have the full 12 units in one army, though. 6 units is a little tight for the unit variety, I feel.

Edit: I'm increasingly suspecting the game has people who are supposed to be dead at scenario start hanging around, as I just heard a rumor that Fan Chou is up in An Ding.
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Re: The Last Warlord--an indie ROTK strategy game

Unread postby Sakae Wu » Thu Jan 11, 2018 6:11 pm

Gray Riders wrote:I'm hoping Lu Meng appears soon. I know he's around in 200 since Sun Ce starts with him in that scenario.


I heard from the waiter that Lu Meng is in Wu Pass in 199. So, you should be able to search him out.

Ma Teng was just so slow going I restarted with Han Sui. At least he has Chenggong Ying who is a big help in domestics and research.
I took out Ma Teng pretty early and absorbed his officers. Han Sui is a sworn sibling with Ma Teng in TLW also which is why I thought they might start out with better relations.
I managed to take down Li Jue in early 199, and just grabbed Han Zhong from Zhang Lu, leaving him cornered in Shang Yong.

This game has had it's share of randomness also.
Liu Bei was one of the first to get knocked out after getting squeezed by Lu Bu from the west, Yuan Shu from the south and finally Liu Yao finished him off at Xia Pi. Kong Rong went down immediately after.
Yuan Shao is slowly winning in the north, but it's been a struggle against Zan.
Liu Biao jumped out quickly and had 8 cities at one point, even invading Liu Zhang. But, he probably got over extended as Sun Ce(who finally woke up) and Cao Cao are both making good progress against him.

I'm debating now if I should finish off Zhang Lu and join the fight against Liu Biao, or go after Liu Zhang and try to control the western map.
It's been a chore trying to find free officers in the Northwest, and some of Li Jue's officers were impossible to hire so they got axed :devil: But, I'm going to have to increase my officer count as I'm getting a little thinned out.

Gray Riders wrote:I do wish we could have the full 12 units in one army, though. 6 units is a little tight for the unit variety, I feel.


Totally agree with this, I really hope they make some changes there.
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Re: The Last Warlord--an indie ROTK strategy game

Unread postby Gray Riders » Thu Jan 11, 2018 7:26 pm

Sakae Wu wrote:I heard from the waiter that Lu Meng is in Wu Pass in 199. So, you should be able to search him out.

I guess he must have wandered there? Wu Pass would be a very weird place for Lu Meng to appear. Hopefully so because that's pretty far from where I am. Hopefully Zhang Hong will uncover him sometime.

It's been a chore trying to find free officers in the Northwest, and some of Li Jue's officers were impossible to hire so they got axed :devil: But, I'm going to have to increase my officer count as I'm getting a little thinned out.

There seems to be a glitch where prisoners don't gain rapport when you try to hire them, but the log says they do. I don't know which part is the glitch, though.
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Re: The Last Warlord--an indie ROTK strategy game

Unread postby Sakae Wu » Thu Jan 11, 2018 8:23 pm

Gray Riders wrote:I guess he must have wandered there? Wu Pass would be a very weird place for Lu Meng to appear. Hopefully so because that's pretty far from where I am. Hopefully Zhang Hong will uncover him sometime.


Yeah, I'm doubtful he'd be in Wu pass in your game as well. I guessed he may have spawned in Jiang Xia? Idk~
Sun Ce is quickly turning into a major player in the south even without him in my game.
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Re: The Last Warlord--an indie ROTK strategy game

Unread postby Gray Riders » Thu Jan 11, 2018 8:55 pm

A few months after his disastrous failed invasion, Liu Bei sends Sun Qian to offer me a gift.

He's cheeky, I'll give him that.

Wu Royal Guard unlocked. I'm thinking of giving the seals to Sun Ce (obviously, making my ruler a tank is a good idea) and Cheng Pu, but I'm considering saving Cheng Pu for Heavy Spearmen when I reach Pu Yang.
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Re: The Last Warlord--an indie ROTK strategy game

Unread postby Zyzyfer » Fri Jan 12, 2018 2:14 am

Things seem to be moving slowly, but usually I play pretty long sessions (with big gaps in between these days). Would you say that the game moves along at a healthy clip, or is it a bit on the sluggish side?

Are the menus onerous to navigate? IV was the worst for that.

Does in-game time pass appropriately? Sun Ce's Jiangdong invasion is usually a good litmus test for that.
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Re: The Last Warlord--an indie ROTK strategy game

Unread postby Gray Riders » Fri Jan 12, 2018 2:43 am

Zyzyfer wrote:Things seem to be moving slowly, but usually I play pretty long sessions (with big gaps in between these days). Would you say that the game moves along at a healthy clip, or is it a bit on the sluggish side?

Are the menus onerous to navigate? IV was the worst for that.

Does in-game time pass appropriately? Sun Ce's Jiangdong invasion is usually a good litmus test for that.

1: I'm playing slowly since I'm keeping track of what happens for the reports, I'd say it moved at a good speed when I played normally. Tasks being assigned cuts out a lot of the busy work in each turn.

Turns slow down if you want to handle every city yourself (more on that when I discuss the menus), but the AI seems to handle it's delegated tasks well enough from what I've seen--I still wouldn't trust it with invasions but it hasn't driven cities into the ground and when I tell it to get to a certain number of troops it does so at a reasonable pace. The only thing it doesn't seem to do is try to employ officers outside it's own city, and it's possible it was trying and failing because they're all Shu and Wei officers and as I've mentioned different compatibility officers are often incredibly hard to recruit.

2: I find the menu works fine in the capital. You have eight menus that open up sub options but you can get to what you're looking for quickly--I sort of remember IV and I don't find this nearly as bad.
Giving orders to your other cities is a bit slower--you have to go to the city on the big map, open it by clicking on a tab, then go through the menu--this can be annoying if you want to recruit a lot of troops from several cities.
Since it wasn't originally a feature and got added by fan demand that's not a big surprise. There's supposed to be a "City feature V2.0" coming up which might change things, hopefully including giving orders to other cities. I'll probably just rely more on the AI and assume direct control if I want to mass-employ someone to pester them into joining.

3: I've united Jiang Dong except this one island to the southeast--I've never seen it in Koei's games and I'm not sure what it is--around 200, but I played slowly. If I drafted cities dry every season I probably could've gotten it done faster and kept up with Sun Ce's historical pace. Still, I can't say at the moment if I think things move at a historical pace but it feels fine so far--they're aren't moving at a crazy whirlwind speed like ROTK IX tended to, at least, or a painfully glacial one.
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