The Last Warlord--an indie ROTK strategy game

Discussion of other Three Kingdoms games (e.g. Destiny of an Emperor and Dynasty Tactics) and other games by Koei (e.g. Samurai Warriors).

Re: The Last Warlord--an indie ROTK strategy game

Unread postby Sakae Wu » Sat Jan 06, 2018 11:17 pm

Gray Riders wrote:I think getting a second adequately defended city is huge in this game. It makes it so much easier to attack without leaving yourself vulnerable. The other good news is Yuan Shao is having a bit of trouble up north.

EDIT: Lu Bu was defeated in mid May 197. The twist is by who.


Liu Bei? I can't see Kong Rong pulling that off, and CC and YS wouldn't be much of a twist.

I'm trying Cao Cao in 195 and liking it so far. The tech tree is a nice feature, but time consuming and expensive. So, I've mostly been trying to tech up, recruit and work on domestics. I've only taken Hu Lao pass so far and I'm about to grab Luo Yang.

I fought one duel with a local swordmaster and lost with Dian Wei. I had him down to a few hit points but I used capture as my last move and he used speed attack. Oh well, dueling seems to be a bit of a trial and error thing.

I'm going to try to go after Lu Bu pretty soon but it wont be easy. I'm hostile with both him and Liu Bei but I'm trusted with Shao.
Yuan Shu keeps giving me gifts from Ru Nan, so I think Xu Chang is pretty safe.

My economy isn't going very well, I'm spending about 3.2k/month and I can't figure out how to lower that. Yuan Shu's bribes are keeping me afloat right now haha.
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Re: The Last Warlord--an indie ROTK strategy game

Unread postby Gray Riders » Sat Jan 06, 2018 11:38 pm

Sakae Wu wrote:Liu Bei? I can't see Kong Rong pulling that off, and CC and YS wouldn't be much of a twist.

It was, in fact, Kong Rong. He was driven out of Bei Hai by Yuan Shao and chased Lu Bu out of Pu Yang, then finished him off in Xiao Pei. At first I thought it was Liu Bei but then I checked and nearly broke into laughter.
I'm checking the employment screen every turn in case Kong Rong hires some of Lu Bu's officers and they'd rather join me.

My economy isn't going very well, I'm spending about 3.2k/month and I can't figure out how to lower that. Yuan Shu's bribes are keeping me afloat right now haha.

That's pretty high outside months where you recruit or research. What is your expenses breakdown?
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Re: The Last Warlord--an indie ROTK strategy game

Unread postby Sakae Wu » Sun Jan 07, 2018 12:14 am

Gray Riders wrote:It was, in fact, Kong Rong. He was driven out of Bei Hai by Yuan Shao and chased Lu Bu out of Pu Yang, then finished him off in Xiao Pei. At first I thought it was Liu Bei but then I checked and nearly broke into laughter.


Wow, that's pretty crazy. I don't think I've ever seen Kong Rong take a city in RoTK? (I've only played 9, 10 and 11)

Gray Riders wrote:That's pretty high outside months where you recruit or research. What is your expenses breakdown?


I think that was a recruiting month maybe. I'm back to a positive income ledger> Task 1,520, Payroll 327, Proposal 250, Upkeep 248

I've sent one of Cao Cao's 3 wives to get an alliance with Yuan Shao. I'd like to keep him north of the river for as long as possible.

Have you expanded anymore with Sun Ce?
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Re: The Last Warlord--an indie ROTK strategy game

Unread postby Gray Riders » Sun Jan 07, 2018 12:46 am

Sakae Wu wrote:Wow, that's pretty crazy. I don't think I've ever seen Kong Rong take a city in RoTK? (I've only played 9, 10 and 11)

I think minor rulers seem more liable to do well in this compare to ROTK; I've also seen Zhang Yang/Yan (not sure which) kick Dong Zhuo out of Luo Yang.

Have you expanded anymore with Sun Ce?

Not yet, but I've got over 30K troops in Jian Ye as of July 197; Yan Baihu's days are sharply numbered--probably next turn once my officers get back from some tasks. I'm a bit worried about not having enough officers to manage everything so I'm hoping the enemy officers down here will join quickly. I've also got Heavy Infantry availabe for research. Once I've taken Wu I'll use the three cities combined wealth to get 12,000 or so of them.

I am a bit worred that it's 197 and I haven't seen or heard a sign of Lu Su or Lu Meng yet--I appreciate the area-based search system but it's a little annoying when I know a certain officer is in a certain city and would like to focus my efforts there. It would be awful to find out one of them wandered north and joined Yuan Shao or something.

Edit: Oh my. Kong Rong just pushed Cao Cao out of Chen Liu! :lol:
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Re: The Last Warlord--an indie ROTK strategy game

Unread postby Sakae Wu » Sun Jan 07, 2018 4:09 am

Gray Riders wrote:Not yet, but I've got over 30K troops in Jian Ye as of July 197; Yan Baihu's days are sharply numbered--probably next turn once my officers get back from some tasks. I'm a bit worried about not having enough officers to manage everything so I'm hoping the enemy officers down here will join quickly. I've also got Heavy Infantry availabe for research. Once I've taken Wu I'll use the three cities combined wealth to get 12,000 or so of them.


I managed to get heavy infantry before I attacked Pu Yang, and I'm glad I did. A nice jump to 70 Def. from 30.
I'm trying to phase out all my light infantry now.

I took out Lu Bu after 2 battles and a final assault on his city. The first one I managed to isolate Lu Bu's unit with the Xiahou boys and Li Dian with Cao Cao and Cao Ren holding off the others. CC took a bit of a beating from Zhang Liao but with Lu Bu being triple teamed he didn't last too long.
I went back to Chen Liu to heal up for 2 months and then redeployed. This time they only sent out 12k troops so it was over pretty quickly. I only lost 4k troops in that battle plus the assault on Pu Yang.
I'm on easy btw, so you have to keep that in mind :)

Gray Riders wrote:I am a bit worred that it's 197 and I haven't seen or heard a sign of Lu Su or Lu Meng yet--I appreciate the area-based search system but it's a little annoying when I know a certain officer is in a certain city and would like to focus my efforts there. It would be awful to find out one of them wandered north and joined Yuan Shao or something.


Yeah, I know what you mean. Dong Xi was one of Lu Bu's officers in my game, which isn't that outlandish, but they definitely travel around alot. I haven't heard anything about Xu Huang and I've pretty much given up hope on getting that guy. :(
Lu Su would be a huge plus for your force so I'm hoping you can find him! Lu Meng too ofc but I'm wondering how they stat him in this one. But Lu Su is one of my favorite officers and was consistently one of the best prefects for me in X and XI.

Edit: Just saw your edit, haha. Maybe he's got Lu Bu and Lu Su! :twisted:
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Re: The Last Warlord--an indie ROTK strategy game

Unread postby Gray Riders » Sun Jan 07, 2018 4:39 am

Sakae Wu wrote:I managed to get heavy infantry before I attacked Pu Yang, and I'm glad I did. A nice jump to 70 Def. from 30.

How much does it seem to reduce damage? I've seen some games where doubling your defense stat just lowers damage by about 10%, heh.

Yeah, I know what you mean. Dong Xi was one of Lu Bu's officers in my game, which isn't that outlandish, but they definitely travel around alot. I haven't heard anything about Xu Huang and I've pretty much given up hope on getting that guy. :(

I think the waiter has mentioned Xu Huang to me--he's in Hong Nong, I think? If you haven't gotten to that city yet he may still be available.

Lu Meng too ofc but I'm wondering how they stat him in this one. But Lu Su is one of my favorite officers and was consistently one of the best prefects for me in X and XI.

My hope is that Lu Meng is in Yuzhang. He's usually around Chai Sang in these scenarios in ROTK games--Chai Sang isn't on the map, though. If he's in Ru Nan, though, Yuan Shu probably found him and he's run off to join Liu Zhang or something.
It's also possible this game doesn't have Lu Su appear for hire until around 200 when he took up service with Sun Quan. Lu Meng might be "not of age" yet as well.

I'll start a 207 game and grab their stats.
Lu Meng is pretty good but like the other Wu guys his unit stats aren't amazing. However he has very high Tactics and most of the strategy skills.
https://steamuserimages-a.akamaihd.net/ ... 9030B19A9/
Here is Lu Su:
https://steamuserimages-a.akamaihd.net/ ... 3D8FDD735/
That commerce stat!

Update:
April 197
I send an assortment of officers to Jian Ye--a bunch of average guys who weren't busy at the time, plus Lu Fan who becomes prefect.

Liu Yao offers us a good ransom for our prisoners so we accept. Gongsun Zan takes Nan Pi from Yuan Shao.
https://steamuserimages-a.akamaihd.net/ ... A0C1EB583/

Gan Ning still hasn't been hired--I think his moving and the city changing hands is causing problems. We send another attempt.


Here's the policy screen for your non-capital cities.
https://steamuserimages-a.akamaihd.net/ ... BAEB52B8B/

You have quite a bit of power over what they'll do. You can also choose to control it directly (not originally true but people kept bringing it up and it was changed) but there are a few things you have to do from the capital such as diplomacy and hiring prisoners (but not free officers). Rather annoyingly I don't see an option to expand city size in non-capitals but I'll cross that bridge when I come to it. I briefly tested the prefect AI and it seemed at least functional, but I won't risk relying on it early on when every city needs to be doing exactly what is required.
For Jian Ye I want to get up to 5,000 each infantry and archers and get Safety up. I send Jiang Qin to Jian Ye this turn to help. I'll send extra troops over from Lu Jiang in a bit as well. Once Jian Ye is safe I can focus on building it's economy more.

https://steamuserimages-a.akamaihd.net/ ... D34E3B5F7/
This is the screen for moving the capital. The cost seems to vary a lot and I'm not sure what affects it. This is one of the cheaper moves I've seen. We won't move it quite yet though.

In June we find Zhu Ran in Jian Ye--apparently he didn't join us automatically? We dispatch an officer to hire him. One of the other advantages of multiple cities is hiring--every city can have an "employ" task on the same officer, so now that we have two if someone good appears we can send two officers to try hiring them.
https://steamuserimages-a.akamaihd.net/ ... F31B96210/
Zhu Ran is well rounded but not amazing.

The swordmaster Wang Yue visits us. Sun Ce duels him to a tie (Wang Yue had lower health in the end, though). I also recall Sun Yu from Searching the south (Jiang Xia)--I figure he'll be more useful doing military tasks shortly.

In early June, Yan Baihu attempts to send a gift, but is rebuffed.

In July Gan Ning and Zhu Ran both join us and we find Zu Lang. Zu Lang is a medicore commander but has a high recruitment chance so we'll grab him.
https://steamuserimages-a.akamaihd.net/ ... 4A6B9F496/
Gan Ning is pretty good, but following existing Wu Dissapontment Rules isn't too great outside naval battles. He has amazing Pillage but I have no idea what that stat is used for.

Thanks to it's high population Jianye has over 4,000 reservists! We'll make it the new capital next month, when officers off on employment missions return to Lu Jiang.

https://steamuserimages-a.akamaihd.net/ ... 2B10CE611/
Here is the "tax collector". They spawn in our other cities to bring gold to the capital. presumably to help fund research and diplomacy without forcing us to manually send transports. I am unsure what percent of the income is sent.

The waiter reveals Yi Ji in Xia Pi to us. Although he is a very good officer he's 20 days away, so officers sent to try hiring him will miss a month getting back. Not worth it since the odds are low and it would take a long time to build his Rapport up. He also reveals Yan Jun (I reloaded to check some things), who we will hire.

Next month Yan Jun joins us. We order the capital moved to Jian Ye. We bring Zhang Zhao, Zhou Yu, Cheng Pu, Han Dang, and Huang Gai with us. Lady Wu Guotai and Zhang Hong will follow next month when they return from searching.

September is a big month as the capital arrives at Jian Ye. It will likely remain here for a long time. We order most of the troops from Lu Jiang brought in but we will leave about 12,000 to defend and will raise that number to 20,000 over time.

That month...
https://steamuserimages-a.akamaihd.net/ ... 855B78180/
Poor Liu Yao has no idea we have reinforcements coming. We'll destroy him at sea. Sun Ce is injured from dueling with a visiting swordmaster, so Zhou Yu will lead the sortie.

Order of Battle:
Zhou Yu, 6,000 light archers, destroyer
Han Dang and Zhu Ran, 6,000 light infantry
Huang Gai and Jiang Qin, 6,000 light cavalry, destroyer

We meet them and prepare for a sea battle.
https://steamuserimages-a.akamaihd.net/ ... ACED4176B/

Zhou Yu attempts to hit Taishi Ciwith a fireboat, but misses. I think Fireboat may be terrible. Still our larger ships and superior naval skills leads to over two to one kills in our favor. Taishi Ci is taken captive again.
https://steamuserimages-a.akamaihd.net/ ... 040858C1A/

In November we learn about Liu Ye. Another good officer we can't realistically hire.

December is a joyous occasional; look at that final entry in the monthly log!
https://steamuserimages-a.akamaihd.net/ ... AECE25513/

Let's see what he has to say:
https://steamuserimages-a.akamaihd.net/ ... 1511C8BB5/
...
Maybe he's in a good mood?

Sun Shao arrives to ransom Taishi Ci but we turn him down. I'm hoping his Loyalty will drop and we can hire him.

197 arrives. Jian Ye continues to expand, nearly 5,000 reservists this season. Very soon we will be ready to crush Yan Baihu.

In February, Zhang Cheng comes of age and joins our army.

In May we accept a gift of food from Liu Bei--he shows proper respect for our mighty army! Later that month the mighty Lu Bu was defeated...
...by Kong Rong.

We'll keep an eye on the employment screen...some of Lu Bu's old officers might be interested in joining us, if we're lucky.

We finish research and can now recruit Heavy Infantry. They're three times as expensive as light infantry, so we'll wait for our economy to strengthen a bit, especially since our next battle--the invasion of Wu--is looking like another naval engagement.

Finally we set out in August to defeat Yan Baihu and capture Wu city.

Order of Battle:
Sun Ce, 6,000 light infantry, battering ram, destroyer
Zhou Yu, 6,000 light archers, destroyer
Huang Gai, 6,000 light archers
Cheng Pu, 6,000 light infantry, battering ram
Han Dang and Zhu Ran, 6,000 light cavalry

Yan Baihu meets us, but is severely outnumbered:
https://steamuserimages-a.akamaihd.net/ ... B2682EEBE/
By a margin of two to one, in fact.

The clash begins. Cheng Pu tricks Yan Baihu into chaining his ships together, but it's mostly just my ships smashing his apart.
https://steamuserimages-a.akamaihd.net/ ... 5D0404716/
Every turn during naval battles most or every unit seems to lose some men, possibly representing some sort of naval attrition? That's where most of my damage came from.

A few days later we learn Yuan Shu was destroyed by Liu Biao.

In September, Jian Ye begins recruiting a heavy infantry corp. Sun Ce reaches the walls of Wu; Yan Baihu has 11,000 men to meet us.

There is nothing they can do. Yan Baihu has catapults, which defend the sides, but not ballistas, which defend the gate. None of his troops are archers.
https://steamuserimages-a.akamaihd.net/ ... 533A123BA/
He can do nothing but watch our rams smash the gate to splinters. Our men enter the walls.
https://steamuserimages-a.akamaihd.net/ ... 60AA16C42/
https://steamuserimages-a.akamaihd.net/ ... CAF4EC89E/
Wu has a ton of gold and food stockpiled. It's a great haul. We'll send a ton of it over to Jian Ye.

We move a handful of officers over to Wu; once Sun Ce's army returns to Jian Ye we'll send some defenders over and rebuild Sun Ce's forces for the advance on Hui Ji.

In October we learn Gongsun Zan and Ma Teng have both been destroyed. Sun Ben is made leader of Wu city. It's in rather dire need of assistance, having a security of 47 out of 1,000.

Still, as December of 197 arrives things are looking good. Yuan Shao and Liu Biao are both growing very strong, but once we defeat Liu Yao and Wang Lang and devour their officer corps we should be in position to build significant strength in the south. I think we'll take out Liu Yao, next. Wang Lang can wait--he also owns two cities, so taking Liu Yao's one will hopefully let us hire his officers.
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Re: The Last Warlord--an indie ROTK strategy game

Unread postby Sakae Wu » Sun Jan 07, 2018 5:18 am

Nice work! And it seems Mi Heng has a soft spot for Sun Ben? But, who can blame him~

I'll try to do some research on the damage differences between heavy and light. All I know so far is Cao Cao had 7k light and was getting pummeled. Li Dian had 4.5k heavy and lost maybe 500 tops. They were in different situations for sure but I think it's worth the upgrade from the little I've seen.
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Re: The Last Warlord--an indie ROTK strategy game

Unread postby Gray Riders » Sun Jan 07, 2018 5:55 pm

The localization file seems to have descriptions for all the stats that I haven't found in-game yet, clearing up what most of them do. Although a few do not help. Here are the descriptions:
Infantry: This effects the abilities of infantry when under command.
Cavalry: This effects the abilities of cavalry when under command.
Archery: This effects the abilities of archer when under command
Navy: This effects the abilities of navy when under command.
Siege: This effects the abilities of siege weapon when under command.
Defend: Increase defense on siege battle.
Training: Increase effectiveness of drilling.
Recruit: Increase effectiveness of recruiting.
Combat: This effects the abilities of combat in duels.
Valor: This effects the abilities of combat in duels.
Horsemanship: This effects the abilities of horsemanship in duels.
Archery: This effects the abilities of archery in duels.
Capture: This effects the abilities of capture in duels.
Strategy: :Increases effectiveness in strategy.
Tactics: Increase stratagem strike chance.
Calm: Increase stratagem evasion chance.
Pillage: Increases effectiveness of pillaging.
Scout: Increases effectiveness of spying
Farming: Increases effectiveness in farming development.
Commerce: Increases effectiveness in commerce development.
Flood control: Increases effectiveness in flood control development.
Architecture: Increases effectiveness in defense development.
Patrol: Increases effectiveness in security development
Math: Decreases the fee in technology researching
Connections: Increases effectiveness of searching.
Virtue: Increases effectiveness of employment and searching.
Debate: Increase effectiveness of negotiation in diplomatic task.
Negotiate: Increase effectiveness of negotiation in diplomatic task.
Culture: This effects the abilities of literature and music.
Charm: Increases effectiveness of employment.

Meanwhile I've figured out how to mod officer stats--the games files are mostly just .txt so it's highly moddable if you can find what you're looking for. It's a bit lengthy so I'll edit this post later when I have time (or make a new one if someone's posted since then).

Edit: Okay, modding officers:
The officer stats are stored in the file "generalattributes.txt" for each scenario; the scenarios are stored in the "story" folder in the main directory.
Make a clean backup before editing the file in case you make a typo or mistake that ruins the whole file.

However the officers are identified by numbers rather than names, and the stats themselves are stored as "a(number)" values. Here are what each number means:
0 Infantry
1 Cavalry
2 Archery
3 Navy
4 Siege
5 Defend
6 Training
7 recruit
8 combat
9 valor
10 horsemanship
11 archery
12 capture
13 strategy
14 tactics
15 calm
16 pilllage
17 scout
18 farming
19 commerce
20 flood control
21 archietcture
22 patrol
23 math
24 connections
25 virtue
26 debate
27 negotiate
28 culture
29 charm
So for instance ""A9":71" means the officer has a 71 in Valor.

Each officer has a bracketed array, near the beginning is the officer's ID number. How do you find the officer you want to edit?
*Start the game and open a scenario where that officer is around from the start and check their stats. Look at the first five--there is almost no chance multiple officers will have the exact same values, and if they do you can narrow them down quickly by looking at other stats. Use this search template in the generalattributes.txt file, replacing the numbers with those of the officer you are looking for:
"A0":52,"A1":57,"A2":59,"A3":51,"A4":44,"
So if you want to find Lu Meng (his ID is 503) search for this exactly:
"A0":80,"A1":50,"A2":77,"A3":83,"A4":82,"
You can then change A numbers to whatever you want.
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Re: The Last Warlord--an indie ROTK strategy game

Unread postby Zyzyfer » Mon Jan 08, 2018 12:25 am

That's interesting. Although, to be blunt, I'm not thrilled by the prospect of revising all of the officers all over again. Plus since the game mechanics are different, it may turn out to not be necessary. I just don't understand the logic behind taking a big fat dump all over Wu, it's like going back and playing the old ROTKs where Wu was terrible all over again. But if unlocking better units really alters damage taken that much, who knows, it may not even be necessary.

I'm still on the fence with this for now, but enjoying both of your reports. They implement some interesting ideas and I would pick this up in a heartbeat on mobile, but as a PC title, still not sure yet.
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Re: The Last Warlord--an indie ROTK strategy game

Unread postby Gray Riders » Mon Jan 08, 2018 1:18 am

Zyzyfer wrote:That's interesting. Although, to be blunt, I'm not thrilled by the prospect of revising all of the officers all over again.

My own efforts once the editor comes out will probably be more modest than for ROTK XI, partially because I feel there are way fewer trash-tier officers in this game than ROTK usually has. I've seen very few officers that can't do something worth at least their 20 bucks season bottom rank wages.
I don't think I'll do any officer modding before the editor, but I figured I'd share once I figured out how it's done.

I just don't understand the logic behind taking a big fat dump all over Wu, it's like going back and playing the old ROTKs where Wu was terrible all over again.

They also have less of a naval advantage than usual; Cao Cao has lots of 70s and 60s naval guys, and my experience so far says 70s and 80s guys do fine against 80s guys--Wu's only got Zhou Yu and Lu Xun for 90s naval officers. Actually Wei has a few guys--most notable is Yu Jin whose pretty good in general--who are better than Sun Ce on the water.
That said a few big name guys from other kingdoms are much worse than you'd expect--Xiahou Dun doesn't hit 80 in any unit stats, for instance, and Huang Zhong's worse than you'd expect with "only" 81 archer--and a few unexpected people are amazing like Han Sui, Li Jue, and Guo Si, or Qu Yi.

Wu has a lot of 70s guys and a good number of low 80s so they're not a weak faction by any means, but an army can only have six units (you can have two armies in battle together though) so a Wu "best of the best" is weaker than one from Shu, Wei, or even Yuan Shao and Dong Zhuo, which is kind of funny.

I'm still on the fence with this for now, but enjoying both of your reports. They implement some interesting ideas and I would pick this up in a heartbeat on mobile, but as a PC title, still not sure yet.

Some of this games ideas, like "strategic map ploys", "battle field tricks" and "not falling for enemy plots" being separate stats are things I'd considered in the past--for instance Zhao Yun is calm and level headed but not a strategic genius. On the flipside Lu Bu tricked people several times but also got tricked quite a bit. I also like that a lot of the minor rulers are more viable with a larger number of officers.

One major criticism I have is incompatible officers are way too difficult to hire so you have people remaining free officers for years, wandering China as vagabonds because nobody is compatible so they won't join anybody, ever. Even with Rapport getting to 80 or above characters with good recruitment stats have "very low" chance with officers who are very incompatible. I always thought the system Koei went with for ROTK compatibility was rather artificial--would Xu Huang really be perpertually annoyed working with Liu Bei? Why would Lu Bu like Sun Ce so much more than Cao Cao? I prefer how Nobunaga's Ambition: SOI handled it, being based off personality traits instead.

One minor complaint is it's not consistent with officers joining family when they come of age. In my Sun Ce game game Zhang Cheng joined us automatically did, but Zhu Ran and Sun Yi didn't.
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