[MOD] Destiny of an Emperor; Flames of Wu

Discussion of other Three Kingdoms games (e.g. Destiny of an Emperor and Dynasty Tactics) and other games by Koei (e.g. Samurai Warriors).

Re: [MOD] Destiny of an Emperor; Flames of Wu

Unread postby MiDKnighT » Fri Jun 28, 2013 1:20 pm

Hi Xiahou Mao. I coded the "Duel" enhancement so that part is on me. If a duel loser runs from the duel only he is supposed to lose "Zeal" status, not the whole party. I'll check into that.

As for officers getting killed, there's a "No Kill List" that sonic should use to protect generic enemies like Nanman. That one is on him :)
Last edited by MiDKnighT on Fri Jun 28, 2013 1:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: [MOD] Destiny of an Emperor; Flames of Wu

Unread postby sonic.penguin » Fri Jun 28, 2013 1:22 pm

Indeed the site is down, hopefully it'll come back soon, but I'll try and address some of your awesome feedback.
The most major issue I've found is coding related, and I'm not sure how easy it'll be to fix. When duels are fought, they tend to erase the various status effects in play. This is a problem later on, when confronted with some of those 255 AC enemies who you basically need to duel to defeat, but instigating a duel will strip your entire army of Zeal (which, at a 100 TP cost, is not something you want to lose).

When losing a duel, only individual officers should be debuffed, at least that was the original coding design. IF it is debuffing the whole party, the is something wrong with the code, although I believe in the ROTK series your officer losing a duel would demoralize the whole army right? Eh, but I do understand the frustration and will have to check into why its doing that to the whole party and if its just restricted to Zeal.
I'd comment about the chronic food shortages, but that's apparently intentional design. ;) It might help to be able to get the starting rations as normal, to help make the early levelling more tolerable.

This is intentional to mimic the Wu forces food shortage at Si Shui Gate.
I like the concept of being able to kill enemies in duels, but there's still some kinks to be worked out, I think. I made the Nanman area quite trivial by killing the generic 'Nanman' enemy type in a duel early on in one of the castle battles beforehand, which meant that when travelling into Nanman I was just having to fight two enemies at a time in the castle, with no generic backup. I also killed Guan Xing, which made some subsequent battles easier, but at least he's just one guy. Killing 'Nanman' removed three units from some later fights.

Will have to fix that, I can make Nanman forces not duel, that's a bug.

In battles where you're faced with a single enemy, he may try to use Life or Raise during the fighting and resurrect someone who you killed in a duel earlier (in my case, usually Tigers). This causes a graphical glitch and adds a 0 troop enemy to the battle who does nothing and gets killed in a single hit.

We just had a life/raise fix come out in the last week. I will apply this to the next update.

I like how you use Seawings to bounce around the map and make things less linear, but I wish some of the locations could be chosen a bit better. This is made worse by the food issues, of course. Cities like Chang'an and Chengdu can't be reached via Seawing and are long hikes from anything that can. I might suggest moving the Lu Jiang Seawing to Jian Ye, then stripping the He Fei Seawing and assigning it to one of the two above cities.


Indeed. I had difficulty coming up w/ suitable locations to Seawing to, especially in Shu. I'll have to fiddle w/ it more to make it more tolerable.
As useful as he is, I'd rather see Mr. Happy changed into something more setting-appropriate. Yeah, I know some of the bonus content isn't setting-appropriate either, but you're not recruiting them into your party. ;) Zhao Yun might be a more appropriate character to plug in there, and his stats are almost identical anyway. The fight against Mr. Happy really wasn't very hard, because Gan Ning attempting a duel on him every turn locks him down with permanent Terror. And is there any point to the back room where the Gunpowder is needed in this mod? It was empty for me.


Yeah, my original intents were not really well applied and I will probably remove him altogether, replacing him with someone else. He originally was Guan Yu, actually.

The abysmally low troop count for Zhou Yu and Lu Xun makes me sad. With how much of a risk it is to field your strategist, and the fact that they aren't offering any unique tactics until very high levels, Lu Xun isn't going to be part of your five man squad until level 45+. A steadier troop gain rather than the ending spike would make it more tempting to use them at all levels, rather than plugging them in the strategist slot and forgetting they exist. Making Lu Xun billetable would also help out once certain late-game options arise.

They don't have to be a strategist for 1. During testing I never used them as a strategist and opted for one of the other guys you mentioned to be the strategist (ie: exchange lower TP to field a more useful officer) although it only lowers by a few points. Yeah, their troop count is a lot lower, but that was necessary to balance them as INT provides a natural resistance to tactics and high troop counts + high INT makes them far too godly. Zhou Yu has a troop count that is actually higher than I like, but Lu Xun does garner a lower troop count I know. I could probably make Lu Xun billetable but I'd have to change a dialogue.
A personal complaint! I wish there were more enemies who you could beat and recruit. I understand not wanting to have to balance the game around getting certain recruits, but it's one of the perks of the base game, the 'gotta catch em all' mindset. Some guys should definitely remain off-limits, but there's a lot of characters who wouldn't be gamebreaking or would only help for a short time that simply can't be recruited. More Ji Lings, please!

I can do this, but it's a lot of work not throwing in someone who is going to throw things out of whack since immediately after you defeat an officer in the castle, they become recruitable. This allows me to not be able to recycle officers for multiple battles and I already don't have to enough for this extended-version of the game.

Also disappointing to see some major Wu figures not get levelling troops. Lu Su and Lu Meng jump out specifically. I didn't wind up using either of them at all. If their stats were bumped up (they both have oddly low Strength, particularly Lu Meng) then they'd make good temporary party members with their set troop numbers. If they gained troops on levelling, on the other hand, then you could plug them in later for certain battles. I understand not wanting too many guys of their caliber to level, because that means you might pass up later recruits entirely. If that's the mindset behind them having static troops, then I'd like to see their stats bumped up. Lu Su with 160-170 Str and Lu Meng with 200-210 Str would make them really desirable choices for the time they're available.

Yeah, they are understatted, but this was done to make them *GOOD*, but again, not godly. I originally had them w/ leveling troops, but found just what you said, I never swapped them out of the party, plus Lu Meng and Lu Su I tried to only make usable around the times they were present for Wu, slowly becoming less useful over time. Actually I've found them pretty useful when you get them, especially Lu Su who has double the soldiers of anyone in your party at the time. (depending on how much you grind)

I used Zhou Fang a lot, up until I recruited someone in Chengdu who was entirely superior to him (and then later replaced him with Mr. Happy). I do like that aspect of the game, with the individual tactics giving him a chance to shine. But at the same time it illustrates the problem from the previous paragraph, where I'm using Zhou Fang almost since I get him but passing up on Lu Su and Lu Meng, much more notable figures, because they don't bring anything to the table that I don't already have in Sun Quan.

Hmm, actually I never really used Zhou Fang much when testing, I considered him to be a more "balanced" officer, but I figured Zhou Fang was around longer than Lu Su or Lu Meng anyways. (like the Cao Xiu plot)

Is it intentional for the 3000ish Rebel Force units in Wei to drop less gold than the 1000ish units earlier in the Shan Yue/Xiang Yang areas? It makes affording equipment at Chang'an hard, especially with the lack of Seawing access and the food concerns.

yes, but this will get changed as I'm retweaking weapons/armor for the last chapter anyways as they seem a but inbalanced w/ some guys wiping out whole units w/ their attacks.

The mod is very good work! I don't want it to seem like I'm just complaining. I'm having a lot of fun. I'll be going to try the final battle soon, and then I'll attempt to press on into the bonus area (I made it up to the first boss fight there before deciding to come back later at max level). I just didn't see all these things being discussed on the LYS forum (which appears to be down currently anyway), so I wanted to bring them up. And yeah, I've tried to avoid spoilers. ;)

Thats fine, I need good detailed feedback like this so I can fix things and make this mod better. I'll be modifying some of these issues in addition to others as the game definitely needs some tweaking/updating, which is why it's a BETA.

Ah, MiDKnighT posted before I could post this. Thanks for checking into that MK.
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Re: [MOD] Destiny of an Emperor; Flames of Wu

Unread postby sonic.penguin » Fri Jun 28, 2013 1:24 pm

he is supposed to lose "Zeal" status, not the whole party. I'll check into that.

Is it pulling the tactic code as generated by the targeting menu ie: 80 and 00 etc or does it pull via a specific subroutine that is separate from that? It may be because when it was designed, the super-zeal wasn't used yet?
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Re: [MOD] Destiny of an Emperor; Flames of Wu

Unread postby MiDKnighT » Fri Jun 28, 2013 1:54 pm

Is it pulling the tactic code as generated by the targeting menu ie: 80 and 00 etc or does it pull via a specific subroutine that is separate from that? It may be because when it was designed, the super-zeal wasn't used yet?


There are bits for each officer all stored in one of these locations in memory:

$622E (enemy)
$622F (ally)

When losing a duel it should just remove the status for that one officer (ie...remove that one bit). To entirely remove zeal status you would set it to 0. Just found my code where I do that (loser punishment):

01:865B:BD 2C 62 LDA $622C,X @ $622D = #$00 <-- Get Haste status
01:865E:59 30 81 EOR $8130,Y @ $813B = #$00 <-- Subtract person who lost
01:8661:9D 2C 62 STA $622C,X @ $622D = #$00 <-- Store status
01:8664:BD 2E 62 LDA $622E,X @ $622F = #$00 <-- Get Zeal status
01:8667:59 30 81 EOR $8130,Y @ $813B = #$00 <-- Subtract person who lost
01:866A:9D 2E 62 STA $622E,X @ $622F = #$00 <-- Store status

Looks right to me. If it's killing the status for your party check $622F - it should not be 0.
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Re: [MOD] Destiny of an Emperor; Flames of Wu

Unread postby Xiahou Mao » Fri Jun 28, 2013 3:15 pm

If it helps, I've noticed that losing the duel doesn't actually matter. Simply having a duel at all, even if you win or draw, will strip all your status effects away. I've seen it affect Guard as well, so it's not just Zeal. It affects enemies too.

They don't have to be a strategist for 1. During testing I never used them as a strategist and opted for one of the other guys you mentioned to be the strategist (ie: exchange lower TP to field a more useful officer) although it only lowers by a few points. Yeah, their troop count is a lot lower, but that was necessary to balance them as INT provides a natural resistance to tactics and high troop counts + high INT makes them far too godly. Zhou Yu has a troop count that is actually higher than I like, but Lu Xun does garner a lower troop count I know. I could probably make Lu Xun billetable but I'd have to change a dialogue.


High troops plus high Int does make them godly, but the downside is the tactics like Shock and Crossbows and Thunder, which zap everyone no matter their Int level. Using Lu Xun in the field is incredibly risky because in addition to the chance of him being one-shotted by a Xu Chu or a similar foe, tactics like that are going to walk all over him.

As a battle participant, he also just doesn't bring enough to the table for the mid game to justify using him. I used Zhou Fang extensively despite his poor Str because he had Terror, which helped me lock down those hard-hitting enemies and even weaker strategists. Until the 40s, Lu Xun doesn't offer any crowd control or improved healing or anything like that, just a high Int. Crowd control is really important! Once he got Miracle, then I slotted him into my army for that, and by that point he had enough troops to be a safe pick. I just wish there was more safety and more motivation to put him in before that.

I can do this, but it's a lot of work not throwing in someone who is going to throw things out of whack since immediately after you defeat an officer in the castle, they become recruitable. This allows me to not be able to recycle officers for multiple battles and I already don't have to enough for this extended-version of the game.


Yeah, I can see that causing troubles. Even with the 1 MB file, you're still running into officer caps, huh? Well, do what needs to be done. ;)

Yeah, they are understatted, but this was done to make them *GOOD*, but again, not godly. I originally had them w/ leveling troops, but found just what you said, I never swapped them out of the party, plus Lu Meng and Lu Su I tried to only make usable around the times they were present for Wu, slowly becoming less useful over time. Actually I've found them pretty useful when you get them, especially Lu Su who has double the soldiers of anyone in your party at the time. (depending on how much you grind)


I was wondering if you were going to use that as justification. Gan Ning, after all, died basically at the same time as Lu Meng did, yet he has levelling troops. ;)

My choice in not using them comes back to the tactic selection again. Neither of them offered what Zhou Fang does, the ability to lock down the enemy. The tactic selection of both Lu Su and Lu Meng is identical to Sun Quan, but Sun Quan also has a higher Strength than either of them. With the direct damage tactics at that point either being generally weak or vastly overcosted for TP (Shock/etc., a choice I understand), bringing in more 230-240 Int guys with low Str didn't strike me as a wise choice when I could just steamroll people with Taishi Ci, Huang Gai and Gan Ning, and use Zhou Fang and Terror to prevent damage. Me using Zhou Fang for so long proves that I'll keep a character with low Str if he brings other things to the table. Lu Su, Lu Meng, and the other tactician types of that tier (including, yes, Lu Xun) simply don't at that point in the game. You've got Sun Quan already to fill that role. I didn't find any battles at that point in the game where stocking tacticians and using the weaker direct damage tactics was more effective than smashing through the enemy and using Terror as control.

I finished the game last night, pretty much. Finally have an officer who can use Chaos. ;) That's the sort of tactic that would give a reason to use Lu Xun in the army earlier, though I fully understand why it's not made available. One NPC in the last town wanted to send me after 'the foreign tribes'. I know where you're sent for that in the normal game, but where am I supposed to go now? I feel like there's one last battle to do, and I'd like to complete the whole thing!
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Re: [MOD] Destiny of an Emperor; Flames of Wu

Unread postby MiDKnighT » Fri Jun 28, 2013 7:18 pm

If it helps, I've noticed that losing the duel doesn't actually matter. Simply having a duel at all, even if you win or draw, will strip all your status effects away. I've seen it affect Guard as well, so it's not just Zeal. It affects enemies too.


That's terrible if true. I'll trace it with Flames of Wu and see if I can catch it.
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Re: [MOD] Destiny of an Emperor; Flames of Wu

Unread postby MiDKnighT » Fri Jun 28, 2013 11:41 pm

Found some Duel status effect issues. Fix coming soon. Surprised it took this long to find this bug!
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Re: [MOD] Destiny of an Emperor; Flames of Wu

Unread postby MiDKnighT » Sat Jun 29, 2013 12:09 am

Some duel status effect fixes:

0x4660:
18A201A4BCC0059002A200BD2C623930
8A20A895BD2E6239308120B495A201A4

0x4AB0:
86A201C0059002A200BD28623D3A8120
DC94BD2A623D3A8A20EB9460A201C005
9002A200BD2C621930819D2C6260A201
C0059002A200BD2E621930819D2E6260

0x54E0:
A57330FB202990A97085BF60C900F001
60BD28625D3A819D286260C900F00160
BD2A625D3A819D2A6260000000000000

0x55B0:
AE651085AD4CF895C900D00160BD2C62
5930819D2C6260C900D00160BD2E6259
30819D2E626000000000000000000000
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Re: [MOD] Destiny of an Emperor; Flames of Wu

Unread postby Xiahou Mao » Sat Jun 29, 2013 2:48 am

Yay, I am best beta tester~

Oh, I should mention for sonic penguin, I found a few spelling mistakes as well. I didn't sit down and note where all of them were, unfortunately, but I do remember a grammar mistake in the 'defeated' dialog for the final boss.
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Re: [MOD] Destiny of an Emperor; Flames of Wu

Unread postby sonic.penguin » Mon Jul 01, 2013 2:33 am

Will apply to the current version
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