Sango 2 (Magitech Corporation): Discussion Thread

Discussion of other Three Kingdoms games (e.g. Destiny of an Emperor and Dynasty Tactics) and other games by Koei (e.g. Samurai Warriors).

Unread postby Arakasi » Thu May 08, 2008 6:10 am

Another Tip: Leave a decent general to guard the flag/base. If you do the battle well you won't need it too much (at least on the Xiao Pei map) but you will need some defence there. You have 2 flags. If you lose one you can't use drums anymore (thats the general morale ability that raises you entire armies morale, can be used 3 times a battle). If you lose both you're toast.

Edit: What I said before about 2-1 or 3-1 wasn't really true. I was outnumbered in total and in the battle, but not by much. This is mostly due to troop limits. 12 units each per side seems to be the limit, so if you have good quality and tactics (well somewhat good anyway, I am playing on easy so far, I shudder to think what hard is) you'll be able to win. Each Ji Ling attack on me is usually like 2-3 attacks as I whittle through his army and kill his officers, then his army disbands when the morale gets too low and he goes home. The one thing I don't really understand is that since he has lost Ru Nan, how is he replenishing his troops so fast? I'm killing his guys at like a 4-1 or 5-1 rate compared to mine. I should really send a spy down to his city to see what is going on.
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Unread postby Arakasi » Thu May 08, 2008 7:34 am

It's interesting to see their interpretation of some famous general's stats. 80 or so seems to be the high point for many officers, although some get a little higher and items carry it higher. There are basically 3 stats. Int (basically in and out of battle tactics), leadership (how well they go leading an army and in the case of non marshalls, how well their morale holds out before they break and run) and combat (how well they fight in combat).

I'll just list them here as Combat/Int/Lead since that is how they are in the game.

Liu Bei: 44(48 with item), 73, 51
Guan Yu: 87(97 with item), 78, 80
Zhang Fei: 87(92 with item), 46, 60
Chen Deng: 28/80/74
Liao Hua: 71/63/65
Guan Ping: 74/72/73
Zhou Cang: 74/45/40

Just interesting to see Liu Bei as that low in stats. I won't list everyone, since that would take too long. But here is a few that stood out from different kingdoms. Some of these aren't exact since you gain 1 stat point from each level up.

Yuan Shao: 67/64/63
Yan Liang: 80/71/80 (wow)
Zhang He: 80/64/80
Tian Feng: 60/74/57
Ju Shou: 47/80/53
Zhu Ling: 73/72/77

Lu Bu: 88(98)/60/78
Zhang Liao: 81/76/80
Chen Gong: 36/76/45 (kinda lower than I expected)
Gao Shun: 74/60/71

Yuan Shu: 51/28/44
Ji Ling: 76(79)/50/71

Sun Ce: 85/80/86 (best general I've seen so far)
Zhou Yu: 80/85/86
Huang Gai: 82/74/81
Cheng Pu: 78/76/82
Gan Ning: 76/54/71
Taishi Ci: 85/72/59
Lu Meng: 74/73/79
Lu Su: 44/80/80
Xu Sheng: 77/60/78
Pan Zhang: 78/71/77 (exceptional compared to some other Wu officers)
Zhou Tai: 77/68/71

Liu Biao: 30/59(69)/54
Huang Zhong: 73/45/69 (quite low)
Wen Pin: 58/76/51 (now an advisor)
Xu Shu: 28/80/63
Kuai Yue: 60/72/69
Cai Mao: 55/27/44

Deng Zhi: 63/77/76
Fa Zheng: 27/43/54 (wow, another very low guy who I'm surprised wasn't higher)
Wei Yan: 72/48/69
Zhang Ren: 51/74/54 (an advisor type now, hmm)

Jia Xu: 20/80/45

Ma Teng: 77/62/78
Ma Chao: 86/76/80
Pang De: 76/69/74
Ma Dai: 78/54/71

Cao Cao: 83(95)/83/87(92) - Duh, the best as usual.
Cao Ang: 72/72/76 (dang, very nice)
Cao Ren: 78/71/71
Cheng Yu: 74(77)/68/80
Guo Jia: 22/80/54
Li Dian: 76/84/74 (another wow)
Man Chong: 54/81/78
Sima Yi: 78/83/80
Xiahou Dun: 80/75/79
Xiahou Yuan: 77/55/75
Xu Chu: 86/54/69
Dian Wei: 85/62/69 (Funny that both Dian Wei and Xu Chu have more lead/int than Zhang Fei)
Xu Huang: 80(81)/69/78
Yu Jin: 79/72/80
Yue Jin: 80/69/76
Zhong Yao: 45/80/80

I went and reloaded from the start to find Zhao Yun. Sad I think he died in the Yuan Shao/Gongsun Zan wars. He's awesome though:

85/78/80

The later scenarios aren't available yet, so can't tell if officers stats change later. Guess I'll see if my game goes on long enough.
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Unread postby Mikhail » Fri May 09, 2008 2:35 am

Dumb Paypal requires a few days (apparently a week's worth) before they allow the payment to go through (I'm using a bank account) which means I'll be waiting until then. Then if its accepted and they do send it, it'll take a few days too.

:cry:

So much waiting...
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Unread postby Arakasi » Fri May 09, 2008 9:03 pm

Well restarted as Liu Bei again in 194 (well it is the only choice). Reason I restarted was annoyance at missing out on those early level ups plus well even though I was lucky and Cao Cao didn't attack me, well he did attack everyone else. He took out Lu Bu after some taking of cities between the two. He also took out Yuan Shu, so basically I was surrounded on all sides by him. Not much hope for any success in that sort of scenario.

So this time both Yuan Shu and Cao Cao attack me right off. Yuan Shu's force gets wiped out horribly. I don't think he even sent a real officer with his troops. Cao Cao the next turn was nice enough to wipe out the remainder of Yuan Shu's force before engaging me. Luckily it wasn't his completely A-list force. Some officers involved were Yu Jin (leading), Xiahou Dun, Cao Hong, Sima Lang, Yang Xiu, Cao Xiu, Han Hao, Wang Lang. First battle won and captured and hired Sima Lang. Everyone else got away.

He attacked immediately the next turn and due to his crap morale was slaughtered. His officers are falling fast though. Cao Xiu, Han Hao, Yang Xiu are now pushing daisies. Zhou Cang is a beast. He took both Cao Xiu and Yang Xiu's heads. Han Hao I think got killed after refusing to join me after battle. The main thing in the battles here is to use your elite units well. Cavalry and swordsmen are gold, but they can be wasted quickly if left in a bad position. Archers are especially capable of wasting cavalry. However if cavalry can get them before they switch targets they will disintegrate quickly.

Anyway going to keep playing and hope that me keeping Cao Cao busy will allow others to make gains on him. And if anything I'll beat him by killing all his generals. And if I can take Shou Chan it would be huge. Yuan Shu's officers are weak and quite beatable, and Shou Chan has as much production and population as Xiao Pei and Xu Zhou combined.

Edit: Oops Han Hao wasn't dead. I actually managed to recruit him successfully. Never thought I would be that happy to get Sima Lang and Han Hao. They are at least mid 60s in several stats. Anything I can do to get the crap officers away. Having to use both female officers in battle is so sad. Considering they are pretty useless if engaged. I'm still not sure how to use heal though. It says it heals targeted units, but it seems to only work on themself.
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Unread postby James » Fri May 09, 2008 9:24 pm

I'm going to start making a section for this this weekend. :)

If you like, it would be great if you listed gameplay suggestions. A good format would be to place a heading in bold followed by an actual suggestion. (Well, if you are interested, of course). A gameplay tips page would be golden, it seems.
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Unread postby Arakasi » Fri May 09, 2008 9:43 pm

Yeah I'm trying to play it more and develop more of an understanding of the game and its mechanics before I write the review. Also doesn't help that all my battles but like 1 have been at this city. I'm getting pretty good at defending Xiao Pei. But yeah I'd be fine writing about gameplay suggestions/tips.
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Unread postby James' iPhone » Fri May 09, 2008 11:05 pm

Like any other part of the site the section could develop with time. I imagine most anything would be helpful when picking up the demo without documentation. :)
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Unread postby Arakasi » Sat May 10, 2008 12:05 am

There is documentation. The manual is in PDF format in the install directory. It's a pretty good manual, but there are a lot of things in here that are more complex. As well most of my experience is limited to siege battles. Part of this is just the scenario I'm in. If I was someone else I could go on the offensive. Instead I'm trapped between 2 numerically superior forces and I'm constantly defending. I can't even attack Yuan Shu's worthless ass because well I'm stuck in Xiao Pei all the time. I would need to have some sort of treaty with Cao Cao to get the time to take out Yuan Shu.

For battles some things I've found out so far.

- You better be good at micromanaging. Unminded units can be slaughtered. Although castle battles are good in that well you can just leave units in place most of the time, well the ones on the walls anyhow.

- Archers that aren't engaged are lethal. Extremely lethal. I did one field battle and some unengaged archers took out half of Zhang Fei's swords unit in a short amount of time, like in under 30 seconds. Archers on walls are much the same. They will waste the enemy, but if the enemy gets siege ladders up there they will take a beating. Archers melt away when in melee.

- Cavalry charging from behind is godly. It's pretty much responsible for most of my kills. Just don't leave them alone against archers and don't get stuck in a huge melee, just like in the TW games.

- Most of my wins are due to flank/rear attacks. Tactics can be handy. Chen Deng's strategies used at the same time as my cavalry charge works quite well. Sadly I don't know how to use healing tactics yet. Well I don't know how to target them.

- Spear units are the meat and potatoes of your force. Due to how recruitment works in this game, you can't afford to lose a lot of swords and especially cavalry. So you have to lose forces somewhere, at the least as the anvil waiting for the hammer. You can use swords as the unit to hold castle gates, but they will get worn down. I really haven't found the best use for swordsmen yet. So expect to lose 100 or so spearmen against any well rested force. The couple engagements after when they're at low morale will be at much lower losses. Get used to ferrying soldiers over from Xu Zhou. It's not in any immediate danger, and it has higher troop capacity. This I think is where the buildings will come in.

- I'm not quite 100% sure how the unit buildings work (I think they increase the production by that much if they work anything similar to the farms) and I think having the building that gives +200 spearmen will be very important for Xiao Pei and any other main defence cities that are being constantly attacked. I just built a building that adds 100 to swordsmen in Xu Zhou so I'm going to try to keep track of how often and much it adds to recruits.

- Armies are definitely good to use, even on defence. The reason for this is having control over which units to use. If you just dump all your officers in one city when battle starts you won't get the choice of every officer. Kept getting annoyed with Liao Hua not being in. If you make an army and leave it on your city, they will defend the city first. This also allows you to attack afterwards on a weakened force.

- Don't do auto battles. I tried to attack a weakened force with it, my army strength was 4 times theirs, but I lost all my troops. Ooopsie. Don't do that.
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Unread postby Terranigma Freak » Sat May 10, 2008 1:08 am

Arakasi wrote:Pang De: 76/69/74


You sure that's not a typo? I don't have the game yet, but seem a little TOO low for Pang De. If not, then damn he's one of the most underrated fighters in the story.
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Unread postby Mikhail » Sat May 10, 2008 1:30 am

Terranigma Freak wrote:
Arakasi wrote:Pang De: 76/69/74


You sure that's not a typo? I don't have the game yet, but seem a little TOO low for Pang De. If not, then damn he's one of the most underrated fighters in the story.


You should see Gan Ning, Wei Yan and Huang Zhong (76/54/71, 72/48/69, 73/45/69 respectively) . Hell, Guan Ping, Yan Liang, Zhu Ling, Gao Shun, Ji Ling are apparently better than these guys...
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