Sango 2 (Magitech Corporation): Discussion Thread

Discussion of other Three Kingdoms games (e.g. Destiny of an Emperor and Dynasty Tactics) and other games by Koei (e.g. Samurai Warriors).

Unread postby Mikhail » Wed May 07, 2008 11:44 pm

Wow, sounds awesome. How do you like the gameplay... you know, if you can give a really short review or something...
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Unread postby James » Thu May 08, 2008 1:25 am

Arakasi wrote:Just did a second battle. Sima Yi attacked by city 3 turns in. I was doing pretty well but I stupidly left my flag undefended again and the enemy got through to me. If I had left Liu Bei there I think I would have won. I was doing pretty well outside the city.

I'm looking forward to playing this game now. :)

If you have some time, would you be interested in preparing a well-written review for ol' KMA? I think you'd do a great job with it. I'm going to toss a section for this game up and it is always nice to have some help from a few good people. It would be something similar to this, but probably including a music evaluation. Haha...

I'm glad this game is giving a good first impression!

We could always use more good RTK games. :)
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Unread postby Mikhail » Thu May 08, 2008 1:59 am

Finally finished my download and install. I'm hoping my laptop could run it, but if it'll have trouble... i'll make it run it ;)

I'll give my take later.
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Unread postby Arakasi » Thu May 08, 2008 2:03 am

Sure I have some time and would be interested in doing that. Just got back from a seminar so going to try it out again here and see if I can survive past 5 turns as Liu Bei.
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Unread postby Sun Gongli » Thu May 08, 2008 3:13 am

Any particular reason why "Sun Quan" is listed as the ruler of Sun Ce's force?
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Unread postby James » Thu May 08, 2008 3:20 am

Sun Gongli wrote:Any particular reason why "Sun Quan" is listed as the ruler of Sun Ce's force?

Maybe Sun Ce wanted to take a break?
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Unread postby Sun Gongli » Thu May 08, 2008 3:31 am

I was disappointed by the lack of Liu You's force or anything. The game has potential, but I miss the miscellaneous forces.
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Unread postby Mikhail » Thu May 08, 2008 3:35 am

Wow, this game doesn't play a lot. 3 turns and Yuan Shu has already attacked Xiao Pei and I lost. Valiant efforts from Guan Yu, Zhang Fei and Zhou Cang but there were just too many of the enemy force for me to win. So far its been pretty hard to figure out what I am doing but... I decided to bite the bullet anyway and on an impulse, I purchased the game...

I liked what I saw, battle wise, even though it pales in comparison to the Total War franchise, but it was still cool. The world map was a bit difficult for me to understand how to take advantage of properly but I'm hoping that the full-version has an actual manual and possibly more campaigns than the 3 that they have shown in the demo.

I'm hoping I didn't throw $32 away... but then again, its only $32. Hopefully they ship it real soon, and I might have it by next week. Of course the worst thing that could happen is that they don't ship it at all. Whatever the case, I'll try to keep you guys updated about the situation.
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Unread postby Arakasi » Thu May 08, 2008 3:49 am

Yeah I saw that too. Pretty silly. I'm guessing a typo or something like that.

Anyway. I won a battle! Woot.

Well I lost another battle first. This one to Sima Yi again. I think my problem there was I had Liao Hua guarding my vulnerable gate, and well I think he had archers. So he got slaughtered when they broke through and they got into Liu Bei's troops and took the flags. So I restarted again and finally got some luck in that Lu Bu and Cao Cao are making feints at eachother. Of course Yuan Shu sent an army my way, led by Ji Ling.

I was getting pretty used to defending this castle map. Basically you have something like 10 or so units to deploy. 6 are on the walls, 2 at the gates, one outside to the west, the flag unit, and 2 more free ones inside the city. Hmm I guess that is 12. I had moved some of my good officers from my second city to this one, since this one is getting all the heat. It is also a lot more vulnerable, although I did leave some officers there. Mainly I wanted to get my hands on Chen Deng and Jian Yong, who are somewhat decent officers. Actually Chen Deng is very good, with a 74 leadership score. That is over 20 better than Liu Bei (who iirc has 51) and the second best overall in my force behind Guan Yu who has 80.

If you are looking through your list of generals and then look at the total number of officers around, the 2 won't add up. The reason for this is that you get a number of randomly created generics. They have names, they have some basic skills (basically for the most part they're crap, but when you are using officers like Cao Bao, they are a worthy alternative, well in some cases with the officers who are actually decent. I've gotten a couple with 30s in all 3 stats, or 35-40 in a couple. I've also gotten a couple with like two stats under 10)

So anyway back to the battle. I put Liu Bei with swords in the center position. Liao Hua with swords at the north gate, the walls on the north were Chen Deng, Cao Bao and a couple generics. On the west were Jian Yong and one of the ladies (the one without the heals but with morale). In retrospect I put Cao Bao in the worst spot, the westernmost spot on the North wall. That should have gone to Chen Deng or Jian Yong. Cao Bao sucks and he routed in the battle. Outside I had Guan Yu. At the gates in the west Zhang Fei, and in the southwest of the city Zhou Cang. All had cavalry. In the far east was the other female officer.

Basic strat was to empty the horsies out of the city, let Yuan Shu's army approach the walls and ram into the back of them with all 3 horse units. Used morale and fear and quickly cleared the west part of the city. While this happen Cao Bao was getting his ass kicked. He fled, but by that time I had Zhang Fei working north of the city while Guan and Zhou finished up the west. Things would have gone better for Cao Bao I think if I had killed the archers who they had 2 groups of north of the city that wasted him. Anyway he ran like a wimp and funny enough for the battle had negative experience.

Liao Hua did a fine job with Swords holding the gate, although he lost a bit over half his men. When Ji Ling committed his reserves it got a bit hairy as they got near the flags, but my men held and with some nice pincering from Zhang Fei who had entered the north gates earlier, Guan Yu who was still in the sw, and Zhou Cang who went around and hit them from the rear they went down before I lost the flags. According to the after battle report, I lost 150 men and Ji Ling lost 600 men. Zhang Fei and Zhou Cang were my studs. They both had big performance gains of 280 or so after the battle, although no one levelled up.

Cao Bao and one of my generics actually like I said lost experience. Liao Hua and Guan Yu made solid gains too, and Chen Deng and Jian Yong did decently too. Zhang Fei in battle took a random officer's head who they had. And good old Zhou Cang took Lei Bo's worthless head. I captured 2 generals and I did hire them, but I've not yet seen them in my officer list. Perhaps they didn't join? Not sure. One was Chen Lan, the other a Yuan. Yao I think? So now I have a depleted force outside my walls. I am thinking of forming an army quickly and trying to take them out. Not sure.

It's a pretty good game for an independant. The thing I wish it had was more of a slow/speed up function for battles as well as better camera control. Unit control is pretty good, but not great. You do have to reissue orders quite often, so I hope you are a good micromanager. Units can do pretty well on their own if you give them good positioning. Liao Hua was a stud pretty much.

One thing that can really help is that when you start a new game the buildings your cities get are random. This is like the RotK where you can build farms/military structures on specified pieces of land. You can get no structures on your cities in a new game, or up to 1 each. Maybe possible to get more, but I've not seen it. It can be worth restarting til you get something useful. Max supplies are useless, since you are so poor to start. Max units can be very good, as long as it isn't max spears. But probably the best one to get is farms, which I think is 200 supplies a turn. On the game I'm on now, both of my cities got a farm. So I'm making 400 extra a turn, since I would be making like a lot less than that without them its pretty damn good. Soon I should be able to make some more military buildings and grow a stronger military.

That is one thing with this game. There is no training. Morale is based on your leader's leadership skills. There is no recruiting. Drafting comes in automatically each turn and is based on the city size and ruling qualities of the governor. I think military buildings might affect it too. So there is very little economic things to do. However there is a lot of spying/espionage stuff to do, plus of course the battles which are the main focus of the game. Be wary on doing things like spying. It seems turns in this game take very little time out of the game clock (I think for me it is still the initial winter), but units can move pretty fast in this game. And doing something like spying takes 15 turns from the unit doing it. On a previous game I tried to spy Chen Liu. I failed like 7 times and yeah that was stupid.

It's looking pretty good so far, I'm just going to try and keep playing and hope I can build up my military and officers some before Cao Cao decides he wants to wipe me out.
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Unread postby Arakasi » Thu May 08, 2008 5:57 am

Well played a couple hours more. One thing I messed up is I didn't know about the green medals in the lower left hand corner after winning a battle. These are medals of valor that you can give to officers to level them up. I only learned this after about my 3rd or 4th battle. So sad to miss out on free levels for people.

I am having fun utterly decimating Yuan Shu though. The idiot keeps attacking me again and again. I've killed probably 10 or more of his officers. I've killed maybe 4-5 named ones. Hired only one (Zhang Xun) but yeah Ji Ling is officially my bitch. He just keeps coming. Of course as the leader I'm not really able to get to him before he runs, but wow his guys keep dying. He is slowly whittling me down, but then I sent some reinforcements from Xu Zhou so I should be fine now.

You can send troops from other cities, it is just not intuitive. Just form an army and move it there and then disband it. The troops/generals will now be in that city. Guan Yu, Zhang Fei, Zhou Cang, Liao Hua and Chen Deng have all levelled quite a bit. Although it is mostly the first four getting kills in battle. Chen Deng is usually on the walls. Guan Ping did join me though, which makes me happy. He is pretty damn awesome (mid 70s in all 3 stats) In fact he is a lot better than Liu Bei. Likely the best thing you can do early to help defend better is move him to the east city and make Guan Yu governor. His 30 higher leadership makes him much much better in battle. Even with the levelling system and such it would be a pain to actually make Liu Bei a decent leader, since his starting lead of 51 is so low.

Funny enough I still use the two girls a lot. I like them for the morale bonus and for putting the healer behind the force at the north gates to give them a bit of a boost. They do suck in combat, but ugh I'm still using generics and Cao Bao. I really don't have a lot of options. Guan Yu, Zhang Fei, Zhou Cang, Liao Hua, Guan Ping, Chen Deng and Jian Yong are all good. After that it gets dicey. Moving Zhang Xun over there should help since at least he is decent. Gongsun Zan just went bye bye. Maybe I can get Zhao Yun? Dunno.

The thing I still don't get is the damn research system. It says you use research points to get stuff. But my problem is I have no idea how to get them. Perhaps a reward for taking cities? Not sure, and I'm not about to find out anytime soon since I have no chance of taking anything at the moment. Not with rabid Yuan Shu and his legion of crappy officers who I keep killing. Funny thing, the bios change when you kill them. Also has very detailed and nice after battle reports. But yeah Xiao Pei sucks. Not a huge surprise, but yeah it does. It just can't support much of an army. Gladly Lu Bu and Cao Cao are beating the crap out of eachother. Lu Bu took Chen Liu just as he lost Pu Yang. Then he went back up and retook Pu Yang. At least they are keeping Cao Cao off my back. With the way that recruiting is limited in this game its going to be much more dicey to launch offensives. Either you need to attack from places that can't be attacked from multiple sides, or you'll have to do some heavy diplomacy and such.

Edit: There is a manual. Wherever you installed the game just go there and there is a 64 page PDF.

Edit2: Ahh there is hotkeys for battle. And a movable camera! Woot.

Hotkeys

Move (‘m’ or ‘M’)
Pressing the ‘m’ or ‘M’ key will issue a move order to the selected division. Clicking on a specified location on
the battlefield after pressing this hotkey will make your division move to that location.

Charge (‘c’ or ‘C’)
Pressing the ‘c’ or ‘C’ key will issue a charge order to the selected division. Clicking on an enemy or a specified
location on the battlefield after pressing this hotkey will make your division charge toward the specified enemy
or location that you clicked on.

Stop (‘s’ or ‘S’)
Pressing the ‘s’ or ‘S’ key will issue a stop order to the selected division.

Regroup (‘g’ or ‘G’)
Pressing the ‘g’ or ‘G’ key will issue a regroup order to the selected division.

Select a division (‘1’,’2’,’3’,’4’,’5’,’6’,’7’,’8’,’9’,’0’,’-‘,’+’)
Pressing one of these hotkeys will select a division. The General portrait that is on the left-most area of the
screen will correspond to ‘1’, the second-left corresponds to ‘2’, and so on, continuing until the right-most
portrait, which corresponds to the ‘+’ key.

Rotate Camera (‘<’, ‘>’, ‘,’ , ‘.’)
Pressing the ‘<or>’ or ‘.’ key will rotate the camera to the
right.

Pan Camera (Arrow Keys)
You can pan the camera in any direction using the arrow keys.

Speed Control (Page Up/Page Down)
Sometimes it can be helpful to speed up or slow down combat. To do this, simply use the “Page Up” key to
speed up and the “Page Down” key to slow down combat.

General’s dialogue (Shift + Right-click)
In battle, you can get information about each individual at a given time. To check this, hold down the “Shift”
key and right-click on the general or any unit on his division.

Hold Stance (‘q’ or ‘Q’)
Pressing the ‘q’ or ‘Q’ key will make the selected division change stance to Hold.

Aggressive Stance (‘w’ or ‘W’)
Pressing the ‘w’ or ‘W’ key will make the selected division change stance to Aggressive.

Defensive Stance (‘e’ or ‘E’)
Pressing the ‘e’ or ‘E’ key will make the selected division change stance to Defensive
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