japan reunification

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japan reunification

Unread postby lord darwin of sibarani » Mon Nov 27, 2006 6:44 am

who is exactly reunite japan: oda, leyasu,or hideyosi
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Unread postby Sun Gongli » Mon Nov 27, 2006 7:07 am

Oda essentially "started it," and even though he didn't completely unify the land, he's considered a unifier because of the extent of his power. Hideyoshi was Oda's retainer and essentially took over after Nobunaga died. Ieyasu was Nobunaga's ally and didn't take kindly to Hideyoshi's power play, so they fought for a while, but ultimately Hideyoshi won, and Ieyasu served him. However, after Hideyoshi's death, Ieyasu managed to defeat Mitsunari Ishida and the other Toyotomi retainers, and he unified the land in the end. So, all three men won in a way.
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Unread postby Jordan » Mon Nov 27, 2006 10:46 am

Toyotomi Hideyoshi unified Japan and Tokugawa Ieyasu re-unified Japan.

In more detail:

Even though many people say Oda Nobunaga 'came close' to unifying Japan, he still had a little ways to go. Although Date Terumune's ally at one point, it's not completely clear if Date Masamune would just surrender to Oda Nobunaga. It's likely that Oda Nobunaga would steamroll over the weakened Uesugi and Mouri if he hadn't been killed. Nevertheless, he still might need to deal with Kyushu and Shikoku (the Shimazu and Chosoukabe clans would probably surrender, but it's not completely clear). He conquered a lot, but did not have everything under his control before being slaughtered at Honnouji.

After dealing with Akechi Mitsuhide and factionalism in the Oda house (on the issue of succession), Toyotomi Hideyoshi carried out a much more thorough unification of Japan. His one failing was to not defeat Tokugawa Ieyasu, but at the height of his power Hideyoshi had done things Nobunaga failed at (like gaining more formal authority over the powerful Date and seizing Kyushu and Shikoku). In essence, by the end of his reign Hideyoshi was the de-facto ruler of Japan, even if he could not proclaim himself Shogun.

But Hideyoshi's death caused Ishida Mitsunari to suspect the Tokugawa to be treasonous. Mitsunari did have a lot of support backing him, but many important daimyo, like the Kato with domains in Kyushu and the Date with domains in the north, had been upset with either the Toyotomi or Ishida Mitsunari himself. These samurai clans ultimately decided victory for Tokugawa Ieyasu in his battle with Mitsunari. Following the Battle of Tennoji (a culmination of the Osaka: Summer Campaign), Tokugawa Ieyasu formally controlled all of Japan (though the Shimazu's domain, Satsuma-Han, stayed somewhat independent during the Edo era).

What If Questions-

Q: Would Oda Nobunaga have eventually unified all of Japan if he had not been slain at Honnouji?
A: Probably, but it's not clear if his successors would be that great (although Oda Nobutada, who died from Mitsuhide's betrayal as well, was said to be talented).

Q: Could Akechi Mitsuhide have become ruler of Japan following his betrayal of Nobunaga?
A: He might have been able to possibly defeat Hideyoshi had word of Nobunaga's death not gotten out to Hideyoshi so quickly. Nevertheless, it's unlikely that he would have unified Japan after Nobunaga because of clans, that were enemies of the Oda, like the Uesugi and because of factionalism within the split Oda house (some clans formerly under Nobunaga would resist Mitsuhide for a long time in all likelihood...).

Q: Could Ishida Mitsunari have won at Sekigahara?
A: Yes, in fact he very nearly did win. Had Kobayakawa Hideaki not betrayed Mitsunari, there could have been a stalemate or Mitsunari could have achieved victory.

Q: Could Ishida Mitsunari have re-unified Japan under Toyotomi Colors?
A: Sadly, probably not. In this sense, Mitsunari is somewhat of a tragic hero. He had the skills and leadership ability, but ultimately lost Japan because of personal disagreements other daimyo had with him and because of Hideyoshi's own actions. If Hideyoshi had not pissed off Date Masamune (by threatening to reduce his land holdings at one point), the Date would have been more likely to side with Ishida Mitsunari in the Sekigahara Campaign. With this crucial assistance from the Date (and probably the Mogami, who's lord was related to Masamune), Ishida Mitsunari would have been much more successful (because the Ishida's allies, the Uesugi, would have been able to take castle after castle in the East during the Sekigahara Campaign).

Mitsunari also had enemies in Kyushu, though, which nearly jeopardized the Ishida's own holdings in the West and on Kyushu itself. Because of certain opposing elements from far north and from Kyushu, Mitsunari was unsuccessful. Moreover, Tokugawa Ieyasu's son, Hidetada, still had a large army after the Battle of Sekigahara. Even if Mitsunari had won at Sekigahara, he might have ultimately lost in war against the Tokugawa (because he would have to still fact the Tokugawa and probably resistance in Kyushu).
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