Kessen III Discussion Thread

Discussion of other Three Kingdoms games (e.g. Destiny of an Emperor and Dynasty Tactics) and other games by Koei (e.g. Samurai Warriors).

Do you recommend Kessen III? (Vote after you play!)

Yes
69
72%
No
10
10%
Unsure…
4
4%
Never played it…
13
14%
 
Total votes : 96

Re: Kessen III Discussion Thread

Unread postby Xiahou Jia » Tue May 01, 2012 5:15 pm

Well...first of all hi to everyone...it's been a long time really.
I'm currently playing Kessen 3 and I thought it'd be nice to share my opinion on it. I am at the last chapter on my first run at the moment.
I was following Echang's guide to s items until I realized that nearly all these uber S rank items are of little use. Also some of the supposedly tough batlles are walk in the park really if planned properly. Both 10 stars battles against the heroes of Kawanakajima aren't that difficult really and getting s rank and items is way easier than battling Tadakatsu Honda at Okehazama or trying to grab all the items at Nagashino while prolonging Katsuyori's life there. So while perfectionism is nice I'm quite dissapointed with the fact that KOEI doesn't reward the player accordingly. Ignoring the items and building your characters with rampages and using the skills throughout the battle and delaying the victory to the very last minute is way more effective. Actually most times you can do both really.
Another thing I've noticed is that all generals are actually equal in terms of natural stats. There's little if any difference between say Kazumasu Takigawa and Hattori Hanzo, Nobunaga Oda and any other "All" type character, Toshie Maeda or any other "warrior" type character. The only reason Nobunaga is that strong is because of being compulsory in all normal/major battles and thus being higher level. Any character can best him in stats if raised properly. My Saizo Kani is way ahead in INT than Yoshino or Nobunaga (with hero accessory) thanks to Shingen, Yoshiaki and other generals who gladly donate their intellect after being defeated in rampage :D
The best troops come with new generals obviously in this game. Both Murashige and Saizo just dominate the battlefield because of their spearmen being unmatched at the chapters they join you. Saizo's troops are actually the best till the very last one and would be absolutely great if they had only a single spearwall attack. Don't know if everyone's noticed but the 2rd attack is much weaker the first and the third is even worse and only the last one has a scattering and confusing effect, so it's much better offensively to have only a single spearwall as it can be spammed and abused so nicely that some may call this cheating.
Seriously speaking the spearmen are way ahead of any troop type in most situations. Mounted troops aren't that great really as too much time is wasted on the charge itself, reorientating and is really not practical if you want to avoid attracting more enemies. Rifles are great against...rifles...assuming your defence is higher than their attack of course. The map against Honganji is the perfect example where riflemen are so great. Charging through the centre with a single gun unit like Sanchez in reality is easy and effective...although it's supposed to be a suicide. Since the AI rifles will never try to break the fence...they're just sitting ducks. And no, riflemen aren't that great against cavalry. Even at Nagashino they can be slaughtered once the fences are down. Same with bowmen...good against their counterparts only. Taking down Masayuki Sanada or Ieyasu Tokugawa with bowmen takes eternity for example. Can't say much about the swordsmen as the chaotic nature of their special attack is just...chaotic. Ninjas are really of little use to tell the truth, but I do use them for pure fun as I like giving the AI a bit of charge with Kazumasu's lightning :twisted: But, seriously, they're more of liability than an asset. Offscreen they die too fast and they suffer the same problem as cavalry...the special attack wastes too much time and leads to unwanted displacement. Kunoichi are a bit better...but they're just too weak. At the moment both my Saizo and Kazumasu are only one level difference and Saizo deals 2-3k damage with the spearwall, while Kazumasu deals only 900 with shuriken to the same generic officer. Btw Nobunaga's Tiger Cavalry deals about 2k damage to the same enemy and then needs to stop, turn around and charge again even though his attack stats are higher than Saizo's.
A bit about magic. As the general skills carry over to a new game+ I really want to believe they'll be useful eventually. Because unfortunately in my first game Rampage is way, way more efficent than anything any lev4 ninjutsu or offensive spell can offer. My Kazumasu's lightning deals about 2,5-3k damage at the moment at the cost of 4 skill slots...not enough to even kill a generic officer at the prelast chapter in one blow. Rampage allows to fight off at least 2 enemy units and finishing them off with a single spear unit. I've noticed that on average you get 12 sec of confusion out of the rampage and I've never seen 2 rampages with no confusion masks in a row. And it takes less than 3 secs to charge a spearwall. If the AI has a support bowmen unit then you just use the retreat option to go through the ranks of the confused AI unit and decimate the archers behind it. Rampage allows to recover troops, although it's capped at 999 per rampage, but even then it completely outclasses the pathetic Heal. Frankly speaking I only find heal useful if I want to restore the troops for Ieyasu or Tadakatsu and even then...Doubt is better. For my own generals neither is ever needed. The only skills that I found useful are Rally and Gale. Rally speeds things up in dealing with the AI units and getting some items without Gale is nearly impossible, Nagashino map being the best example. I do use Silence occasionally if I have only one skill slot left and thus can't be sure whether I'll get enough confusion time from the rampage but that happens pretty rarely.
As I'm talking about a rampage I believe I should mention that O-Kage is the best for the job and Skylark is...the worst. Skylark gets you killed in a rampage against cavalry and probably kunoichi units as it seems you don't have the invincibility time you usually have after taking the first hit if riding any other horse. But even when riding O-Kage one should actually weigh the chances. I had Sanchez rampaging against Katsuyori's unit at Nagashino and while I've managed to win and got +2 STA increase I probably wouldn't do it again as watching you health dropping by 70% in a single attack is well...unsettling. Warriors are obviously the best for the job even if they're lower in stats. Both Toshie Maeda and Katsuie won every single rampage against Ieyasu at Okehazama despite being 5 levels lower and not riding O-Kage. Both have also survived all rampages against Tadakatsu in the same battle although I've managed to defeat Honda himself only once out of 6 times. If Tadakatsu was in charge of any other unit he wouldn't be a problem really but cavalry is deadly unless you have O-Kage and/or advantage in Stamina. Never had any decent opponent in a rampage since then although Shingen was a bit of a problem as his intelligence was too high so I was really short on time in a rampage.
Last but not least is that apparently Kessen 3 has the same level adjusting system as in the LOCC, meaning intentionally creating the unbalanced army can make things incredibly easy. Over the last 2 chapters I decided to stop rotating characters and started using my favourite characters in every battle. I've noticed that first I reached the level of the main boss of the map and then even surpassed him with 2 of my characters. For example both Nobunaga and Saizo were at lev 38 and my opposition was Hojo at lev 36, the named characters like Masamune Date or Yukimura Sanada were at lev32 and the generics were even lower.
Retired...
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Re: Kessen III Discussion Thread

Unread postby Korin » Sun Dec 23, 2012 4:15 am

Damn it, I wish I still had this game, I remember playing it when I WAS younger and it was good, never got pass Asakura stage tho. I'd probably get farther now since I'm more experienced gamer now.
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Re: Kessen III Discussion Thread

Unread postby Liu Zheng » Mon Mar 18, 2013 1:31 pm

I've never played this series, should I start from the 1st or should I go straight to the 2nd/3rd one?
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Re: Kessen III Discussion Thread

Unread postby Laclongquan » Thu Nov 03, 2016 3:38 am

Thinking back, I do think this 3 is better than both 1 and 2. They are unwieldy somehow~

Also, original poster please change your post. Koei link is down, as it seem they pull all the data of that game.
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Re: Kessen III Discussion Thread

Unread postby LiuBeiwasGreat » Thu Nov 03, 2016 4:25 am

I personally wasn't a fan of the third one. It tried to fuse Kessen with Dynasty Warriors with your army doing silly looking attacks where the entire army would swing together each time you struck, also your allied armies couldn't be trusted to do much anything on their own so you had to constantly shift back and forth between armies so they wouldn't just die off.

Kessen 2 I felt was the best gameplay wise with a nice mixture of controllable action with large scale battle simulation. The first one plays like a giant war simulator. The scale was fantastic and I felt that you had more control over the overall strategy, however besides telling your units where to go and order the occasional tactic you were more of a spectator rather then in full control. I did like it, but I can see how others might not.
Also the first game had elements that are very rare in strategy games, first of all, if you lost a battle the game wouldn't end, nor would it make you play it again. Your army would retreat and you would be pursued by the enemy, after a short skirmish you would be given a new level under the assumption that you lost the previous one.
Also a nice touch that was occasionally annoying, :P depending on who led your army certain officers would either protest your orders (and take a hit to their special move meter) or flat out refuse to follow orders due to not liking you. It gave a degree of realism of the time period which I enjoyed.
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Re: Kessen III Discussion Thread

Unread postby Laclongquan » Thu Nov 03, 2016 10:38 am

Jesus Maria and Joseph~

1 and 2 look simply worse than 3 in normal PS2. With PCSX2 they look better than themselves, but still not the same level as 3...

Aaaaaanyway, I forget! If we complete the game once, do the three extra characters that come from Enjoy Disc appear in New Game + Or we still have to load that disc up?

EDIT: Replay as a new game with two savegames. Got Inahime and Keiji which are huge helps. play normally a bit, with the last normal battle chapter 2 with Matsudaira/Tokugawa. My line up should be average 5 or slightly higher, and so the normal enemies are level 6. But Tokugawa got a whopping level 11.
I spread minor battles and major around so my first line up is5-6 guys of equal level as Nobunaga, and the second line is3 level behind. Chapter 4 I chose to deal with Arashige right away and got him (and Hanzo) after. He's same level as my first line up, reduce in 2 compare to in battle.
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Re: Kessen III Discussion Thread

Unread postby Laclongquan » Fri Feb 10, 2017 1:02 pm

Finish 1st run of Kessen 3

My 2nd run got Keiji and Inahime without having to import SW 1/2 data.

The bonus skill reward mean an extra level adding to each skill better than 0. Zero level skill will get xp transfer but that's it.

Weapon, armor, helmet equip on the total roster get transfered to new game+. Accessories, manual, horse, troops get reset.

The three ENjoy Disc officers, if we can get them, would probabbly come with 100% weapon.armor.helmet, possible only from 2nd run onward.
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