Total War: Three Kingdoms Discussion Thread

Discussion of other Three Kingdoms games (e.g. Destiny of an Emperor and Dynasty Tactics) and other games by Koei (e.g. Samurai Warriors).

Re: Total War: Three Kingdoms Discussion Thread

Unread postby Xu Huang fan » Tue Jun 04, 2019 5:05 pm

i don't play the game but its hilarious to me that Yuan Shao, of all people, has to get his AI nerfed.

none of the big 3, or even Dong Zhuo, just Yuan Shao, the dude who almost always loses to Gongsun Zan in ROT3K games.

real question is, are there yuan shao memes about this?
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Re: Total War: Three Kingdoms Discussion Thread

Unread postby Gray Riders » Tue Jun 04, 2019 5:09 pm

Xu Huang fan wrote:i don't play the game but its hilarious to me that Yuan Shao, of all people, has to get his AI nerfed.

none of the big 3, or even Dong Zhuo, just Yuan Shao, the dude who almost always loses to Gongsun Zan in ROT3K games.

real question is, are there yuan shao memes about this?

In ROTK IX and beforehand Yuan Shao always seemed to flatten Zan then expand rapidly. X and onward seemed to nerf him for some reason.

Yeah, there are memes about it.
https://zirroxas.tumblr.com/post/185136 ... -tw3k-meme

I had a chance to vassalize Yuan Shao in my current campaign but I decided not to. I'll edit this post/make a new one later explaining what happened in my campaign and why I had to let the chance go.
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Re: Total War: Three Kingdoms Discussion Thread

Unread postby LiuBeiwasGreat » Wed Jun 05, 2019 9:54 am

Xu Huang fan wrote:i don't play the game but its hilarious to me that Yuan Shao, of all people, has to get his AI nerfed.

none of the big 3, or even Dong Zhuo, just Yuan Shao, the dude who almost always loses to Gongsun Zan in ROT3K games.

real question is, are there yuan shao memes about this?


Really? Whenever I play 11 or 13 Gongsun Zan gets crushed by Yuan Shao. He just doesn't have enough officers (and the ones he has tends to be low quality) and just gets overwhelmed when I play. On the super rare occasion where Gongsun Zan wins that war I tend to be shocked.

Heck in 13 I have even tried to give Gongsun Zan buffs (more gold, food, and created officers) using the editor and he still tends to lose :lol:
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Re: Total War: Three Kingdoms Discussion Thread

Unread postby Deej » Wed Jun 05, 2019 3:09 pm

Xu Huang fan wrote:i don't play the game but its hilarious to me that Yuan Shao, of all people, has to get his AI nerfed.

none of the big 3, or even Dong Zhuo, just Yuan Shao, the dude who almost always loses to Gongsun Zan in ROT3K games.

real question is, are there yuan shao memes about this?


Because Yuan Shao starts a higher rank than most it means people are easily vassalised by him, his power then snowballs! Dong Zhuo dies early game almost 100% of the time in the current version, Dong Min usually goes on to do the same thing as Yuan Shao!
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Re: Total War: Three Kingdoms Discussion Thread

Unread postby Xu Huang fan » Thu Jun 06, 2019 1:36 am

LiuBeiwasGreat wrote:
Xu Huang fan wrote:i don't play the game but its hilarious to me that Yuan Shao, of all people, has to get his AI nerfed.

none of the big 3, or even Dong Zhuo, just Yuan Shao, the dude who almost always loses to Gongsun Zan in ROT3K games.

real question is, are there yuan shao memes about this?


Really? Whenever I play 11 or 13 Gongsun Zan gets crushed by Yuan Shao. He just doesn't have enough officers (and the ones he has tends to be low quality) and just gets overwhelmed when I play. On the super rare occasion where Gongsun Zan wins that war I tend to be shocked.

for me what happens is Yuan Shao spreads himself out too thin trying to fight Kong Rong or whoever else is on his borders while Gongsun Zan gets 2 free cities to attack Yuan Shao's own City's one at a time until he just loses, like if Yuan Shao manages to defeat Liu Yu in the 190 mode, and if he breaks off the gongsun zan alliance first, he'll win, otherwise he gets stomped.

Deej wrote:
Because Yuan Shao starts a higher rank than most it means people are easily vassalised by him, his power then snowballs! Dong Zhuo dies early game almost 100% of the time in the current version, Dong Min usually goes on to do the same thing as Yuan Shao!


Dong Min inheriting the throne is also funny to me because in XI its typically Niu Fu who gets the good stuff (atleast until i do a run where it'll either be Dong Zhuo's created son or my created Dong Bai)
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Re: Total War: Three Kingdoms Discussion Thread

Unread postby Sakae Wu » Thu Jun 06, 2019 3:17 am

LiuBeiwasGreat wrote:Really? Whenever I play 11 or 13 Gongsun Zan gets crushed by Yuan Shao. He just doesn't have enough officers (and the ones he has tends to be low quality) and just gets overwhelmed when I play. On the super rare occasion where Gongsun Zan wins that war I tend to be shocked.

Heck in 13 I have even tried to give Gongsun Zan buffs (more gold, food, and created officers) using the editor and he still tends to lose :lol:


I haven't tried 13, but in 11 Zan usually wins the north in my games. Maybe 8 out of 10 times roughly if I don't get involved.
Yuan Shao seems to want to push south across the river while Zan just focuses on YS territory. I think if Yuan pushed north he would crush him fairly quick.
Also, once he dies and Yuan Tan takes over they seem to fall apart quickly. Just from my experience at least.

Anyways, I'm glad they're trying to fix him in Total War. I'm also kinda hoping they tone down on the uber officers like Lu Bu getting a thousand+ kills single handedly. Trebs seem a bit op'd too~ (with explosives)
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Re: Total War: Three Kingdoms Discussion Thread

Unread postby Jolt » Thu Jun 06, 2019 2:51 pm

Still in mid-game in my Gongsun Zan -> Gongsun Xu game.

Only a few complaints so far:

1. Liu Bei confederating Liu Biao for no discernable reason (Liu Bei only had Chang'an and wasn't even neighbouring Liu Biao). More recently (after losing Liu Biao's territories and being restricted again to Chang'an), his son confederated the much bigger Liu Zhang.

2. Basically, by the time I became Emperor, the Han Emperor was securely in Beihai in Kong Rong's possession. So Sun Jian, who had most of the South, declared himself Emperor too, that's fine, as he was the most powerful warlord at the time. After him was Kong Rong, but he was a Governor and he can't become Emperor the normal way, as I imagine he's loyal to the Emperor. So what happened next makes no sense. The Emperor abdicated to Liu Bei's successor, who was himself a vassal of Sun Jian (And still restricted to Chang'an + Liu Biao's former territories). I, for one, also had Cao Pi as my vassal, with pretty substantial domains by himself.

Surely as long the Han Emperor is under the guardianship of a Governor, it makes no sense to abdicate to someone unrelated to his predicament (It is especially comical since Liu Bei's successor was in a far worse situation that Kong Rong, and quickly lost his capital to Sun Jian).

Makes no sense, and needs to be significantly improved.

3. Related to the previous one, after becoming Emperor and Han Emperor abdicating to Liu Bei's son, somehow there's still a Han Empire faction, composed of disjointed provinces scattered all over the place. In addition, since Kong Rong protected the Emperor, he had the vassalage of those territories. So, with Xian's abdication to Liu Bei's son, instead of those territories passing to Liu Bei's son, or to Kong Rong for being the Emperor's controller and not one of the usurpers, the Han Empire simply became independent.

4. Also related to this previous development, my character, the original usurper of the title, had no problem getting these disparate territories that still owed alliegance to the Han Empire to become my vassal. Makes no sense.

Regardless, I'm having a lot of fun.
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Re: Total War: Three Kingdoms Discussion Thread

Unread postby Gray Riders » Fri Jun 07, 2019 1:48 am

My Liu Bei campaign, up to turn 65:

I started off with those two quick starting fights (smash YT army, take Dong mine) then moved southwest to Annex Langye City. It may have been better to go after Dong city instead, or possibly to annex Langye then do after Dong immediately, but it ended up not being a huge problem.

I attacked Kong Rong right after, since there isn't enough space in Qing for the two of us. I defeat him without much trouble and Zhao Yun joins me in an event, and I capture all of Beihai, Langye, Taishan, and Donglai. I sided with Tao Qian when the event came up, though I never saw any soldiers from Cao Cao, and we eventually peace out. He finds ways to be an annoyance afterwards, however.

Yuan Shao takes Dong city before I can reach it, but I destroy Huang Shao. I have a pretty decent territory that's boxed in and easy to defend. I turn Taishan into a defensive strongpoint to stop Yuan Shao from attacking on that side (since Liu Bei takes a long time to gain a rank and a second army slot) but the preparations turn fruitless--by the time war arrives I have ranked up and control a second army.

During all this, Zheng Jiang somehow takes Changan and becomes Han Protector. This is actually useful because it give me peace with the Han, who are a good trading partner and excellent for selling ancillaries to because they have tons of money.

Tao Qian died of old age before the event could kill him so I didn't get his land. I sit for a bit and get called by Gongsun Zan to join his coalition, which rapidly balloons into an absurd number of members like Zheng Jiang, Dong Min, and even Cao Cao, who promptly tries to get me kicked out twice (nobody supported him either time). The coalition falls apart when many want to upgrade it to an alliance--me and Gongsun Zan refuse and stay together, later adding Gongsun Du. Cao Cao than becomes Yuan Shao's vassal, leaving the alliance.

I eventually ended the non-aggression pact with Tao Qian's successor, Tao Ying, and conquered his territory.

Pretty much right after Cao Cao gets Yuan Shao to declare war on me. I've been preparing for the inevitable showdown with Yuan Shao pretty much all game, though, and I was if anything eager to get down to business--Zhang Fei's army (Zhao Yun, Hua Xin) was in place and fully prepared, and Guan Yu's army (the other officers being Liu Bei and Guo Jia, who seems to show up for any ruler I play as) was where it needed to be--near Pengcheng and in position to attack Cao Cao, and I had a spy in the Yuan camp who was already leading troops.

Cao Cao himself was utterly unprepared for this fight he started. Guan Yu breezes through Chen commandery in little time, though Cao Cao also controls Guangling farm and most of Yangzhou, with Zhang Chao sitting in Guangling city.

Zhang Fei's army storms Dong city, crosses the yellow river, captures Ping Yuan (splitting Yuan Shao's territory), and destroys Yuan Shao's southern army (recruited my spy back as well as one of the strategists--the other was willing to join but I released them). My spy almost died in the battle because when his unit was routing my ranged kept shooting even though I told them not to and took off Fire At Will. His unit only had four men left when it escaped! Zhang Fei soon after takes Pingyuan mine as well and occasionally destroys Yuan Shao stacks coming down.

Cao Cao and Xiahou Dun come south and move on Pengcheng, while Zhang Chao joins the Yuan vassal team. I send Guan Yu back to protect Pengcheng while also raising a third army of the strategist Wei Dan, the sentinel Ce Ba, and the champion Lei Yuanjiang (my former spy). Mao Jie take Chen town back, but Guan Yu catches Cao Cao and Xiahou Dun against the river south of Pengcheng and crushes them against it then heads back towards Chen. Liu Bei is wounded in the battle (PROTIP do not use wedge in leader units, I assumed officers were protected if their unit wasn't low on troops like in TOB, apparently not! :lol: ).

It becomes possible to vassalize Yuan Shao by surrendering Pingyuan to him. I checked and doing it ends the war with Cao Cao so I turned it down. Guan Yu retakes Chen and crushes two Cao armies in the area; both Cao Ren and Mao Jie die in battle.

Zhong Yao was sent spying on Sun Jian. I'm 99% sure he'll be one of the Three Kingdoms in the end, so sending a reasonably high rank spy well ahead of time struck me as a wise investment, but he ends up not being hired.

Then Wang Kuang agrees to unify with me. All he owns is a trade port by Luoyang but it gives me control of his decently sized army on the yellow river--next turn he lands to besiege Henei, while my third army sets an ambush for Zhang Chao, who does not fall for it. My third army withdraws to a safe distance to start recruiting.

Zheng Jiang nopes out of her coalition with Yuan Shao at some point during this and joins mine.

Guan Yu returns east and conquers the Yangzhou farm while my third army starts moving to Shouchun.

Yuan Shao is willing to make peace--VERY willing. He's got food problems, his biggest city is under siege, his armies are unable to stop Zhang Fei's advance, his strongest vassal (Cao Cao) is getting crushed.

It's turn 60. The game says Yuan Shao is the number 2 power and his strength is inferior to mine.
Things are going well.

Wang Kuang is forced to withdraw as Yuan Shao brings reinforcements to Henei--he's able to hide in the woods, make it to the yellow river, and escape to Dong so his army can decomission safely. Sadly, one of his officers dies of illness at sea.

Yuan Shao brings up two stacks to Pingyuan, likely hoping to liberate it. These hopes are dashed when Zhang Fei ambushes and destroys one of them en route and conquers the Henei farm.

Yuan Shu and Liu Cong break our non-aggression pacts but I don't expect either to be too troubling.

At this point I decide my war goals have basically been met--I can't really save Gongsun Zan, but I've taken territory, crippled Cao Cao, and can break up Yuan Shao's power block. In exchange for food to handle his starving cities, a guarantee of autonomy, and the return of the Henei Farm, I vassalize Yuan Shao, breaking up his vassal empire and ending my wars.

Once the peace timer is out I'll finish off Cao Cao and Zhang Chao, of course, but I expect to spend some time on economics now as well. I think I'm big enough that I should be okay for quite a while and do not need to worry about anyone expanding rapidly and eclipsing me. I need to reconfigure some commandaries from "early game survival" build sets into focused economic powerhouses, get anti corruption running everywhere, and try to make some friends for when endgame. I do not expect to permanently maintain control of Yuan Shao but I'm hoping I'll be able to grab some of his ex-vassals for myself, and I can make better use of peace than him thanks to vassal income and the AI's poor building choices (I took one AI city with the market line that gives a Commerce percent boost but no base commerce income in the commandary)

**
I find it interesting that Cao Cao's AI never took Yingchuan. I've seen at least one player say it seems to attract city and it's better for Cao Cao to go east and south instead, and the city DID seem to cause me annoyances in my Cao Cao test campaign. I'm having Guan Yu go to annex it then I'll possibly send him to finish off He Yi and probably fight Cai Mao with the aim to make him a vassal. Zhang Fei will probably be sent against Han Fu and possibly Zhang Yan--so my reconstruction period is still gonna be full of fighting. :P

The best part of this upcoming reconstruction is I have enough +public order from leader traits and reforms that I can run High taxes and only one city loses happiness (which it won't be once I slot in a temple as part of said reconstruction phase).

I have over 4K coming in now between diplomatic food sales (food prices with other rulers seem to skyrocket later as the AI keeps building cities too big for them to support), Yuan Shao's vassal income, and the raised taxes. I noticed the AI seems careless about upgrading cities so lots of factions seem to have food crashes. Even guys that hate you pay top prices. Focusing on farming can lead to tons of cash later on, once the AI starts building huge cities.

According to rankings the big powers are now myself (1), Yuan Shu (2), Liu Cong (3), and Yuan Shao (4). If that determines how the kingdoms are formed it's theoretically possible Yuan Shao could stay vassalized after. However I suspect he'll surpass Liu Cong once he recovers from the war. I'm expecting Zhang Fei to have to finish him off, probably with support from a second army.

I am surprised Sun Jian isn't stronger. He may prove a useful ally later on if he doesn't claim one of the Emperor seats.

Unfortunately I haven't managed to capture any commandaries ideal to turn into an economic powerhouse--one with two minor settlements with the same type of income. Taiyuan could be used for industry in such a way, but it's controlled by my coalition partner Zheng Jiang.

At this point my main concern is many factions allying against me. I believe I mishandled diplomacy by trying to be too friendly with many factions--I read a guide suggesting you should only NAP factions you want to befriend and avoid being friendly with both sides of a war, and in future games I'll try to be more wary. Luckily Liu Bei's starting position means he can't be surrounded--my three armies should be able to adequately protect my territory and I can afford more if I need to, especially once my economic rearrangements are finished.

I believe time is on my side since the AI is bad at developing cities and doesn't seem to demolish and rebuild in the midgame when hyper specializing becomes so effective.

Edit: Turn 103. Things are going well, I got all the Sima Hui characters in events. However, I vassalized Liu Yao and his successor rebelled. During the first battle Xu Shu was killed in action. :cry:
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Re: Total War: Three Kingdoms Discussion Thread

Unread postby Mikhail » Wed Jun 12, 2019 5:42 pm

My collector's edition came last night. It's very beautiful.

https://m.imgur.com/a/I9cJ5JV
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Re: Total War: Three Kingdoms Discussion Thread

Unread postby Hasdrubal » Wed Jun 12, 2019 11:12 pm

The patch did absolutely nothing to Yuan Shao, he’s still stomping everything. Once the steam workshop comes out there will be a mod to rebalance it hopefully!
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